1965 ISDT MX2 Challenger project

[pgc40]

Its been a while

I thought I would provide an update as I got to sample some English mud at the Hot Trod enduro in Northumberland a couple of weeks ago on my Greeves and had a great time. Bike performed amazing. I plan on registering the bike for the road this winter so I can attempt some long distance reliability trials next year.

[Brian Thompson]

You've got it all dirty now....!!

Hi Paul,

Hope your keeping well.

Good effort mate, great to see you having fun with your bike.

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

Paul
The registration number NHK11C is not as far as I can see live on the DVLA data base. So will have to be reclaimed via the DVLA V765 scheme. Druid is the club authenticator for the DVLA. If you have the original registration book, or an old licence disc then it will be no problem, but if you have no documents its more difficult. However the good news is that its an Essex registration & the original registration records are kept at Essex Register Office, Wharf Rd, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 6YT tel 01245 244644
With a copy of the record duly stamped by the records office Druid should be able to recover the number for you from the DVLA at Swansea.

[pgc40]

Hello Brian - good to hear from you! and thank you John! I have emailed the records office so we will see if they have any info.

Can anyone recommend some good road legal trials tyres in UK? Preferably the old size i.e. 4.00 x 18 and 21 x 3.00. See rules below.

Tyres used on MCC events must be suitable for ON ROAD use.
The MCC wish the competitor to join in the spirit of the event by choosing tyres that are non-aggressive in appearance or destructive in use.
TYRES for Long Distance Trials must be road legal.
The space between the tread blocks must NOT extend across the complete tyre, measured at right angles to the tyre wall unless broken by a block.
Only tyres normally available from Commercial or Retail sources for use on the Public Highway are permitted. They shall appear in the tyre manufacturers range catalogue or tyre specification lists available to the general public.
They must be manufactured to comply with the European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation (ETRTO) requirements in respect of load and speed codes and have a minimum service description of 45M.
We advise all motorcycle competitors soft compound trials tyres are NOT SUITABLE for
MCC Long Distance Trials, using the public road. These tyres suffer from excessive wear, causing the break-up of the tyre, making these tyres extremely dangerous.
It is the competitor’s responsibility to ensure that the tyres fitted to his/her machine carry the correct load and speed rating.

Also, where can I buy an idle adjusting screw, thread tap and spring for my villiers carb?

Thanks Paul

[John Wakefield]

Paul
The modification of the S25 carb for tick over screw has recently been dealt with in this thread http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...=Villiers+carb You need a 2BA tap & 4 mm drill which you should be able to buy at a local engineering factor if not over internet. A modified mixture screw can be used, or just turn a point on a standard 2BA screw and find a suitable compression spring to fit.
As for trials tyres these are widely available from most motorcycle tyre factors but I think you will have to settle for 2.75 front as 3.00 is a non standard size now. Michelin or Pirelli seem the favorites.

[Brian Catt]

Those tyres are normally the very soft type, so be aware of that! The Mitas range is, I think, suitable, but again it may be best to talk to an existing MCC ride first. I think we have at least one here that may be able to advise.

[aa will]

having just ridden the beamish long distance trial on my scottish outfit , and having talked to various rider friends about the best tyres it seems that the pirelli mt43 (older trials )tyres are good and reasonably priced, i have been using heidenau trail tyres 400x18 rear and 275x21 front, they look like a std trials pattern but are 3 ply which makes the sidewalls a bit stronger , on the outfit they seem to grip as well as the mitchelins that i am used to so for a long distance solo i would think be ideal once again the price is reasonable at about £90 for a pair ,i also use their heavy duty competion tubes , hope this helps you ,, will.

[aa will]

i also ride a panther trials outfit fitted with mitas trials tyres it now only gets used for long distance and the talmag trial , they grip seems ok but now i have tried the heidenau,i tyres and found that the grip feels better and they seem to be wearing well so i think it up to the rider, i know what i will be using next year, will.

[pgc40]

Thanks everyone for your replies

[John Wakefield]

Front wheel sizes

Here is a photo of the Greeves Challenger in action and ridden by Dale 'Punch' Deyo in the 1965 Isle of Man ISDT.

Paul

Looks like it had a 19" front wheel with trials tyre when ridden in the 65 ISDT, presumably Deyo specified this bearing in mind he would be taking the bike back to the states. I note it still had the smaller front wheel when you acquired it Paul, but you have replaced it with the 21" one & scrambles tyre in the rebuild.

[pgc40]

Hi John - I still have the 19" front wheel with the paint markings and original Dunlop trials tyre from 1965. Dale ordered the bike through Nicholson Motors in California so it was built to the same spec as the USA team. I am hoping to change the tyres to comply with the ACU rules so I can ride the bike in some long distance reliability trials once road legal, hence my earlier question on the forum. I will PM you the frame number.

[Mike Norris]

I am helping a friend to convert a 250 challenger into a long distance trials bike which needs lights. At the moment we are thinking of a total loss system with led bulbs. Can somebody advise how to get a generator onto the flywheel or anywhere else to provide power to charge a battery.. Mention has been made of having coils fitted to the Steffa ignition system. Mark has bought and fitted an Electrex World ignition system but this does not have lighting coils. Thanks Mike

[pgc40]

Hi Mike - I have attached photos of my original ISDT Steffa ignition system on my challenger that includes lighting coils if that helps. You will see that the backing plate and fly wheel is larger than a standard MX ignition to accommodate the lighting coils and are specific to the ISDT models. My ignition works as it should so I never changed anything. I do have a spare spun aluminium ignition cover available for sale if anyone is interested (the original fibreglass one cracked) but its not cheap because I only had a couple made and it will only fit the ISDT Steffa ignitions. You may also want to chat to Bearingman on this forum as I seem to remember that he added lights to a standard Challenger but using a Motoplat ignition system.

[John Wakefield]

Paul, the output from the Steffa is very low only about 15 to 20 watts, I think he system is a type used on mopeds. The output was not important for the ISDT as they never used the lights 'in anger' they were only 'bobby dodgers' there as part of the regulations, as long as they worked that was all that was required. As Mike says the bike his friend is building is going to be used on long distance trials (I assume the Lands End) , so the lights need to be good as the trial runs through the night. So preferably they need to be 12 volt output.

[PeterJGreig]

I want to do the same, my ISDT bike has the normal ignition only Stefa mag. so I have a small battery in the tank bag and a LED stop/tail bulb as a headlight and LED rear and stop lights. The battery will run the headlight for over 24 hours and is certainly suitable for round town etc but I have not tried it on a dark lane although the light output could be enough. I have considered other ignition systems like Electrex but want to keep the bike as original as possible, keeping the duplicated HT coils & twin plug head. I would like to try running the bike as a test from a battery and measuring output from the Stefa as it may be possible to convert to coil ignition and use the mag LT coil to power the sparks and lights. 15 watts at 12 volts is ample to provide decent lights with LED bulbs, mine take about 40ma. for the headlight. The other problem with mine is nowhere to mount the battery, hence the tank bag. Also, as this thread predates my joining I have only just seen it. Peter.