The new Triumph Speed Twin

[John Wakefield]

Having just read (OBM Jan 2019) the report on the new 2019 Triumph Speed Twin, I ask the question why the engine has to be 1200cc, over twice the size of the original 1938 500cc Speed Twin. Surely in view of engine development over the years the engine size needs to go down rather than up. In the car world smaller engine sizes have become the norm with many smaller cars being sub 1 litre but giving over twice the power of a 1000cc Morris Minor or Ford Anglia of the 1960's.

A modern 500cc bike engine should be able to produce more than double the power of its 1938 ancestor, and at the same time benefit from a lighter bike. With max UK speed limits set at 70 mph on motor ways and 60 mph on lesser roads it would make much more sense to build bikes of smaller capacity. Which should result in lower purchase prices as well as cheaper insurance and running costs.

[IanCordes]

I think it is fair to say that the average size of riders has increased since 1938, along with that of their pillion passengers...... Some of the sights I have seen, bikes could do with all the torque they can deliver!

[John Wakefield]

Maybe so Ian, but 1200cc in a motor bike is ridiculous, a 1200cc car will do over 100 mph these days and as as I said in my opening post many cars these days are getting that speed with only a 3 cylinder turbo charged engine. In an earlier thread Colin Sparrow mentioned the problem his nephew had with the new engine output figures relating to the driving test and age of rider. One would have thought that bike manufacturers would be trending towards lower capacity bikes with moderate outputs and lower insurance to try and attract younger riders.
It looks as though Triumph are going the Harley Davidson route of producing 'tractors' for an ageing 'old biker cult'. What will happen when they die out or are too frail to hold the bike upright
In these days of atrocious drivers and congested roads anyone riding at 100mph is looking death in the face, and hopefully getting a driving ban before that happens.

[PeterJGreig]

You have not mentioned the 32" seat height- how does that compare with the original?

[John Wakefield]

The seat height of the original 1938 Tiger 100 was 29.5 inches, dry weight was 355 lbs (161 kilos) the new Speed Twin is 196 kilos (432 lbs)

1938 Triumph Speed Twin SPECIFICATIONS

Model Designation Engine Number prefix Frame Number prefix Production dates Engine Type Displacement Bore & Stroke Compression ratio Engine output Top Speed Electrical system Primary drive Clutch Gearbox Ratios, overall: 1st, bottom 2nd 3rd 4th, top Final drive Frame construction Suspension, front Suspension, rear Brake, front Brake, rear Wheel, front Wheel, rear Wheelbase Seat height Ground clearance Fuel Capacity Weight

Triumph 5T Speed Twin 8-5T TF or TH Nov 1937 - Oct 1938 Air-cooled OHV vertical twin 498cc / 30.4 ci 63mm X 80mm / 2.48" X 3.15" 7.0:1 28 bhp @ 6,000 rpm 85-90 mph 6-volt, Lucas magdyno, 40 watt Chain, 5/16" X 5/8" X 78 links / 77 sidecar Multi-plate, wet 4-speed constant mesh, right-foot shift 12.7:1 solo / 14.7:1 sidecar 8.65:1 solo / 10.0:1 sidecar 6.0:1 solo / 1.95:1 sidecar 5.0:1 solo / 5.8:1 sidecar Chain, 1/8" X 5/8" x 92 links Steel tube, brazed lug Girder-type Rigid 7-inch SLS drum 7-inch SLS drum 3.25" X 20.0" Dunlop ribbed 3.50" X 19.0" Dunlop universal 54.0" 29.5", adjustable 6.0" 3.25 Imp gal 355 lbs, dry

2019 Triumph Speed Twin 1200 spec

New price	Tba – mid January 2019 Available in UK dealers Spring 2019
Capacity	1200cc
Bore x Stroke	97.6mm x 80mm
Engine layout	Parallel-twin
Engine details	Liquid-cooled, 8 valve, SOHC, 270° crank angle
Power	96 bhp (71.5 kW) @6750 rpm
Torque	82.6 lb-ft / 112 Nm @ 4950 rpm
Top speed	100mph+
Average fuel consumption	59mpg (claimed)
Tank size	14.5 litres
Rider aids	LCD multi-functional instrument pack with analogue speedometer, analogue tachometer, gear position indicator, fuel gauge, range to empty indication, service indicator, clock, trip computer, scroll and mode buttons on handlebars, heated grip ready, fuel consumption display, traction control status and throttle mode display. TPMS ready. ABS Switchable traction control Ride-by-wire Riding modes: Sport, Road and Rain Torque-assist clutch Immobiliser LED rear light USB power socket Trip computer Immobiliser Accessory fittable TPMS capability
Frame	Tubular steel with aluminium cradle Swingarm: Twin-sided, aluminium
Front suspension	41mm KYB cartridge forks, 120mm travel
Rear suspension	KYB twin shocks, 120mm rear wheel travel
Rear suspension adjustment	Preload
Front brake	Twin 305mm disc, Brembo 4-piston fixed calipers, ABS
Rear brake	Single 220mm disc, Nissin 2-piston floating caliper, ABS
Front tyre	120/70 ZR17 Pirelli Rosso Corsa 3
Rear tyre	160/60 ZR17 Pirelli Rosso Corsa 3
Rake/Trail	22.8°/93.5mm
Dimensions	760mm 1,110mm (WxH)
Wheelbase	1,430mm
Seat height	807mm
Dry weight	196kg

[John Wakefield]

This is a reply from my same posting on IKBA. I think it sums it up well

"Come now, gentlemen, we all know the reason for this.
With automobiles, they are a way to get around, to get from one place to another. And the more efficiently they can do this, the more popular they will be, hence 3-cylinder turbos and light, efficient 4-cylinders that will burn FAR less fuel and have FAR better performance (100% + better) than the Nash Rambler or Ford Popular of yesteryear.
Motorcycles, however, to the marketeers and MOST of the buying populace, are a proxy for the size of one's wedding tackle or mansack. Even though there is no one I've ever seen that can use ALL of a 500cc sport motorcycle's performance on the street, the marketeers have convinced the buyers (with the buyers' willing connivance) that they are not a true, functional male human unless they have 1400cc or 1800cc or more of capacity between their legs, which in turn is directly proportional to their ability to satisfy a woman.
Add a "get-back whip" and some fringe to a 1500cc bike, and you are not only a Man but a SuperMan. Just watch them .... "

[IanCordes]

Good job you are not a motorcycle manufacturer, John! You would go bust in short order, marketing machines which you think people should ride, ignoring what the public actually want to ride. Comparing with cars is pointless. They are utility vehicles, motorcycles are toys. Who would want a boring toy, when they could have an exciting one? This is not a sports bike, it is more of a cruiser/tourer/street machine; what used to be called a UJM; except it is not Japanese! It is not about top-end power; it only makes 95bhp. Believe me, that is not hard to handle. It is about torque, effortless power for ease of overtaking, or just wafting along in top gear, not frantically playing tunes with the gear lever, attempting to keep a revvy tiddler in the power band. Triumph have not put a foot wrong the last 25 years or so, always producing models which sell well, producing what people want, not what they need. They are comfortably out-selling the Japanese big 4, and their smallest machine is 675cc. Bigger = more profit. If you had to ask the question, you wouldn't get the answer! No offence meant!

[John Wakefield]

Glad I had the good years 60's 70's when we rode motorcycles for what they were originally intended, ride to work and general get you about machines. Present regime are just a load of posers with too much disposable income. The 650's of the day Bonneville and SS Norton were over the ton machines and still had enough torque.
I think within the next few years we will see declining numbers of bikes on the road, once the current set of oldies have moved onto disabled scooters. As has been said before the cost and effort to get a bike licence these days do not encourage youngsters into bikes.

[Colin Sparrow]

[QUOTE
...they are not a true, functional male human unless they have 1400cc or 1800cc or more of capacity between their legs, which in turn is directly proportional to their ability to satisfy a woman.
[/QUOTE]

More likely inversely proportional..?

[Brian Thompson]

Glad I had the good years 60's 70's when we rode motorcycles for what they were originally intended, ride to work and general get you about machines. Present regime are just a load of posers with too much disposable income......

So.....to borrow Colin's law of inverse proportionality, and to throw another sweeping generalisation and dubious stereotype into this lovely thread, does this mean that ALL classic motorcycle enthusiasts are curmudgeonly old gits that are living in the past...? (Not in my experience or opinion, by the way....)

I must add that I for one find it hard to swallow that motorcycles were around in the 1860's-70's though.....

Talk about how to make friends and alienate people......count me out.

Brian T.

[IanCordes]

Well I am full of optimism that the British motorcycle industry will continue to grow, following what consumers want, and once again carving out a niche whilst creating good jobs for the local community. Norton, Triumph, CCM etc; all doing what Norton, Triumph, BSA etc used to do, but in a modern way, for current times.

1200cc? Bring it on

[KevinLS]

I have three road bikes at present, a Morini 3 1/2, top speed about 85mph, an MZ Skorpion, top speed about 105 mph and a Benelli Tre, top speed untested by me, but probably about 150 mph and it is impossible for me to say which I enjoy riding the most, they all change a journey from a chore to a fun excursion, but in different ways. Now a big lazy 1200 cc twin? Yeah why not? It could be a great bike for comfortable, low rev, long distance journeys.

I was riding in the 60s and 70s too and remember a lot of old-fart letters in the motorcycle press complaining that kids of the day never took their tests, but moved on from their 250s to cars as soon as they were seventeen. Apparently the kids didn't understand the fun to be had by ignoring the deplorable build quality of big Nortons and Triumphs and spending the winter months soaking wet and freezing cold in equally deplorable riding gear.

If it's just a matter of getting from A to B you can get by with a hair-shirt motorcycle, but to me biking is a bit more than that. And when it comes to the bedroom I haven't had any complaints lately, mind you I also haven't had............

[John Pattinson]

What about the new CCM, they have full order book and at £14000 each! They are 'orrible' no back mudguard in fact just a posers bike ok for showing off at the local pub or cafe yuk!

[John Wakefield]

And of course the 'new' Brough Superior. And also, as featured in the OBM this month, two guys making a 'retro' bobber style Hollis bikes with 350cc RE engine at £12000 a time

[KevinLS]

You're right there John, those are just a triumph of form over function. Always the wrong way around.