Scottish Headstock Bearings

[IanCordes]

A TDS should have taper roller head bearings. Do you have the ball race cups attached to the top and bottom yokes, which presumably have also gone for blasting? Photos would be good once you have have them back from cleaning.

Hopefully John Wakefield will come along shortly and confirm your model from the frame number.

Ian C.

[John Wakefield]

Frame number 61/1541 is a 24TDS BUT is it the original stamping, maybe an earlier (ball bearing beam) has been re stamped, OR I suppose Greeves may have used up some earlier ball bearing beams on the TDS. Unlikely as frame No 1541 is well into the production. Again a pic of frame (and number) would help.

[Colin Sparrow]

61/1541 is a 24TDS. It's about halfway down the production run of that model, but left the factory on 15th November 1960.

[IanCordes]

Which means it would have had taper roller head bearings Colin, wouldn't it?

It would be good to have a photo of the complete machine before it was stripped, if possible, along with ones of the headstock, frame number and fork and crown plate detail, as previously mentioned.

Does it have a V5C, Vexis?

Ian C.

[Vexis]

yes I have the V5 and both match too

[John Wakefield]

The stamping does not look original (slightly smaller font), looks as though at some point the alloy beam was replaced possibly due to the original breaking . The replacement being the earlier cup & cone type.

[Vexis]

Anythings possible with Greeves.
at least I know the cups can be removed.
its been in my garage for the last 30 years in various stages

[PeterSears]

T
What year and model was your roadster, Peter? It does seem rather odd that you have more balls in one than the other! I will resist the obvious puns!


Ian C.

Ian
Mine is 1960 and when I looked in the parts listing it does show 34 Balls (17 upper and lower) but there is no way you can 17 in the upper race and as I said the 2 races are of a slightly different OD but there is no slack in the steering and they pinch up correctly so must have been changed at some time in the past

[John Wakefield]

Anythings possible with Greeves.
at least I know the cups can be removed.
its been in my garage for the last 30 years in various stages

Have you tried to contact a previous owner, Geoffrey Goddard of Stroud looks to have had it for some time in the 1970's according to the RF60 old logbook

[IanCordes]

I agree with John W that the font looks a bit small. Here is a frame number off a TCS, despatched 6 months before yours, in May 1960:- and you can see the differences. I don't know whether Greeves only had one set of stamp punches; unlikely, I would have thought. Colin may know.

I think what you have is a TCS frame. The forks and crown plate would need to be the earlier ones too, as the I.D. of the ball races was 0.933", whereas the taper roller bearing I.D. is 1". That means the spigots on a TDS bottom yoke and crown plate would be too large a diameter for the cup and ball races; unless they were machined down, which is possible, but tricky, I would imagine. They would also have needed to have the height of them reduced.

Out of interest, is the rear subframe one piece, or two?

Do you have a picture of the complete bike?

You've got the V5, that's the main thing!

Ian C.

[John Wakefield]

If it was a replacement beam it would have been supplied from factory unstamped, the dealer or owner would then have stamped it themselves with what ever stamps they had available. Back in the 1960's I had a Norton Navigator, the front down tube (same as Francis Barnett frame) got bent in an accident with a car, the local dealer repaired the bike under insurance with a new part, they did not stamp it so I stamped it myself with stamps borrowed from the Pye tool room where I worked. Not sure in this case why the correct beam was not obtained, as Ian say forks would also have needed replacing, so maybe these got bent as well and a whole new front end was fitted. Greeves may done a 'good deal' on the then obsolete parts.

[Vexis]

I Wrote to all the owners on the V5 back in 1996,
But I only got one reply from a Mr J Hall he lived in Lechlade,
he said he didn't have it long, that was 1979 and sent a pic of his brother astride it the only pic I have from the past, no idea what they used it for but it had a headlamp on then.

[Vexis]

As of 5 year ago dragged out of my Barn before strip down

[IanCordes]

Yes, there is nothing much TDS about that bike. It it either a TAS or TCS. Not much difference in them. The TCS had a different, slightly heavier front beam which steepened the steering a bit (info blatantly lifted from Colin's book; thank you Colin!). It also had the 32A engine, the TAS having the 31A. The engine number in your V5 corresponds to a 32A, which was also fitted to the TDS, TE etc. If you have a copy of Colin's book 'Greeves - The Complete Story' have a look at the picture on page 72 of the TAS. It looks much like yours. A TCS is on page 82, which it could equally be..

Who knows what happened all those years ago? A nice little bike, either way.

Thanks for posting up all the info and pics. At least you know what you have got now, if you need spares or whatever.

Out of interest, was there black paint under the blue paint when you had it blasted?

Ian C.

[Vexis]

Thanks Ian for the info,
will chase it up and see what I can make of it.
I think it will have been thro a few hands on it travels, so not much surprises me now it is what it is I think.
I did paint it about 15 years ago then it was left in the Barn until time caught up, for me to do some thing with it.
Im not sure what the colour etc, was the first time around.I can't remember .
Defiantly be Moorland Blue this time around RAL5001.
Vexis