Original bikes on race tracks

[Bearingman]

Thanks Druid, A friend of mine is a metal fabricator and is a very clever man I was going to get him to copy the sub frame but with folding pegs on it so I can just unbolt the originals and bolt on the girlie pegs. But is there a sub frame already available ? if so how much and where do I get my hands on one?

Hi Geoff,

Don't do a thing yet with your fabricator. I'll post some pictures of the MX4 folding footrest and you can maybe copy. You can use USA spec MX4,MX5 or MX6 folding pegs if you don't like the look of modern type. Frank may still have NOS items in stock...maybe he'll even have them with the return springs. This will you'll keep your MX4 looking correct and make your ankles and shin bones very happy!

Kenny Sykes
USA

[Kim275]

Brilliant analagy Stormer ............

My 250 Griffon has original foldback pegs...but they are as slippery as an eel - and will be replaced by modern this winter..........I can only marvel at the skill of the riders these bikes back in the 60's and early 70's!!

On the subject of fairness in classic racing - - I am all for improving for reliability within the rules (my bikes have new electronic ignition to replace a faulty motoplat and new |amal carbs - as the old ones were shot) especially when hard to get parts- but agree with the sentimets that ALL bikes should be as close to original spec - to give an equal chance in racing.........The thing that is spoiling classic racing in the UK is the complete 4 stroke bias.....Ever wondered why 250 challenders struggle against 250/350 BSA's - when in the day a 250 challenger was more than a match for a 440 victor?

something to do with the new lightweight frame, new ccm racing cams (from late 70's), Titaniumm valves (from modern YZF's etc), chrome bores, Methanol tuned carbs etc.....We can't touch our port configurations/add reedvalves etc - so why can they do all of this?? - and more probably! (Rant over - but boy that felt good )

This is one of the reasons why Dave Harpurs Greeves series is so good - you can ride close to original spec machinery and be competitive. ----- in fact Daves series has rekindled Greeves racing in UK - as in pre65 and pre74 it is hard to be competitive against other marques on a Greeves.
Cheers Kim

[dave higgins]

hi kim.
Some very good points well put forward, i think you boys are very lucky to have the greeves series on your doorstep in the south east.
It seems a good, well supported competition, in the south west you hardly ever see a villiers based hawkstone at a meeting, prehaps the odd one & a few dot`s here & there.
In fact there are not that many greeves overall really, three or four possibly at most events.
So its time for a fight back!, i am as we speak building a 57 s framed, bsa engined greeves with all origanal parts & a standard ss 80 c15 motor.
I am going to use this bike most of next year & see what its like, it might even draw a few more out of retirement, because i know they are out there somewhere??.
All these restored hawks sold on ebay, they can`t all be for show only!.
I think though for classic scrambles ( pre 60/65 ) its going to be a case of use it or lose it, with sortage of entrants, clubs are looking at other classes to fill events ie (post 74, pre t/shock) so come on chaps, dust off the bikes & lets see a what the old girls can do.

[Kim275]

Hi dave good luck with your Greebsa sounds an interesting project(? Just guessing but we should have a naming competition!!)
Hopefully next season we will get a greeves round in the westcountry so you could come and race with us. If not the Mortimer classic Reading is probably your closest and a great venue for classic scrambles .cheers kim

[John-Boy]

It is not just the unit BSA/CCM engined Cheney-framed bikes (some bored out to 580cc and running on Dope) that masquerade as Pre 65 bikes. There is a large number of Jawa Speedway engined bikes in Metisse or Wasp frames with modern running gear. I have heard that some not only use Methanol fuel (Dope) but also liven it up with bit of nitro-methane (normally used in drag-racing).

People talk of spending over £14000 to have one of these bikes built.

I don't remember many people riding unit BSA's prior to '65 (apart from BSA Works riders) and the only Jawa Metisse I saw was Andy Lee's.

Most of the pre-unit Triumph Metisse raced these days are 650's whereas 500's were the norm in the sixties.

Having said all that, there is already a shortage of Pre 65 and Pre 74 bikes to justify most meetings, and Clubs are having to include a Twin-Shock class. One exception is the Pre-65 Motocross Club which has sufficient members (including the Greeves riders) to put on nine or ten meetings a year.

[Mike48]

I very much agree with the " use it or lose it " statement. Here in Brisbane pre60 attracts 2 or 3 bikes, and pre65 not much better - in fact, they usually are combined with the pre70s.
A few of us got together, and along with an Ariel 500 and an ex Ray Owen 500 AJS, we hope to add another 3 for the start of next season - my 197 Villiers HJH, a B33, and possibly another Red Hunter Ariel.
I feel that the more people see out there, the more that will come out of the woodwork.
Unless we make the effort, It won't happen, and we will lose that wonderful era of scrambles development.
Mike

[John Wakefield]

All these restored hawks sold on ebay, they can`t all be for show only!.
I think though for classic scrambles ( pre 60/65 ) its going to be a case of use it or lose it, with sortage of entrants, clubs are looking at other classes to fill events ie (post 74, pre t/shock) so come on chaps, dust off the bikes & lets see a what the old girls can do.

Good point raised there Dave, trouble is that those with an interest are getting older & not able to participate anymore in competition, the younger element are not interested in the bikes of their grandfathers or fathers but in the bikes they rode. (the last of the twin shocks & early monos). Mention Greeves to these lads & they wont know what you are talking about.
As for eBay, this has hyped up prices so that the the bikes have become showers, & pension hedge fund investments, few owners are going to race a £3 grand restored Hawkstone & damage it.
Its the way of the world I am afraid, it is already causing concern in the GRA (& other 'old bike clubs') as to how to attract new members when us old buggers have gone.