Original bikes on race tracks

[geoff lemar]

Hi thought I would just have a whinge!! I thought restoring vintage bikes was so you could preserve history and show the bikes in their glory!!! But to get a vintage bike onto a race track you have to modify it to fall in line with the rules!! for example I have to spend hundreds of dollars on a hole new foot rest assembly for my MX4 so it will have fold up foot pegs that the bike never had!! I'm sorry but I think you should be allowed to ride the bike as it was made as long as the bike is in good condition does anyone agree with me or am I just an insane crumpy old fart..

[druid]

Geoff,

I don't know where you ride but in the Pre 65 club that is the only modification, apart from fitting a kill button, that you'll need to make to your bike to meet the rules. It's purely a safety issue and there for your benefit.
For the same reason, we won't let you use your 1965 helmet.

Druid

[John-Boy]

I believe folding footrests were fitted as standard to MX4's (and later models) exported to the US market.

[geoff lemar]

original bikes on race tracks

Thanks Druid, I here what you are saying it is a standard answer but if you think a fold up foot peg is safer I beg to differ when a bike hits you a fold up peg is going to do nothing and most of the times bikes hit you they are facing the wrong way up and the peg won't fold anyway. but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Kill switch and helmet is a no brainer you can fit a kill switch quite easily with out defacing the bike.

[Andy Z]

Thanks Druid, I here what you are saying it is a standard answer but if you think a fold up foot peg is safer I beg to differ when a bike hits you a fold up peg is going to do nothing and most of the times bikes hit you they are facing the wrong way up and the peg won't fold anyway. but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Kill switch and helmet is a no brainer you can fit a kill switch quite easily with out defacing the bike.

At least us Greeves riders don't have to go to the vast expense of buying replica lightweight frames to be competitive, unlike some out there.

And as for those footpegs, I don't know how riders of the day managed to stay on the bikes with tiny, slippery bits of metal for footpegs! They were dangerous whether they folded or not! Give me modern pegs any day.

[dave higgins]

hi geoff.
just to add on to what andy z said about the light weight frames.
Classic scrambles in the uk is suffering from over abuse of the amca rule book, there seem to be riders out there in the pre 65 class on machines that would not look out of place in the 70`s. (fork travel, maico wheels. mikuni carbs etc).
Now with the end of scrutineering ( if it still stands), who is going to control what goes on the track?.
Don`t get me wrong, i`m all for reliability, its hard going pushing your bike 1/4 mile uphill to the pits. but i got back into it because i wanted to ride the old bikes & race against the same.
My own personal opinion is that it started off as classic/vintage & i`d like to see it get back to that.
sorry geoff, it started off as your winge & i seem to have taken over.

[geoff lemar]

original bikes on race tracks

Thanks Dave its good to see there is still people that haven't missed the point ! Back in the days riders use to ride their bikes to the meetings take off their lights race then put the lights back on and ride home and if their bikes broke down they would fix the bike them selves . No point preserving history if you are only going to modify it to suit your self. Maybe we need to start an original class to race in with no mod allowed !! other than a kill switch. Hay I'm all for rules and regulations but some rules I think are only created to massage someones ego and serve no other purpose at all

[Peter Rotherham]

Originality.

Back in the 70's on Race tracks in the UK, the early TZ 250/350 Yamaha ruled. An 'off the peg' racer, just about everyone had one. For the spectator, this was a serious turn off, and Motor Circuit Developments, (who owned the major Tracks), went as far as to comment in the M/C press to this effect.
With ever more powerful 'Superbikes' coming on the market, the 'Production' class came into being. This allowed big 4-strokes to compete, thus giving a change to the scream of the 2-strokes. Also it allowed those with such 'bikes as 'ride to work' machines, to identify with them.The Barry Sheene Texaco Heron replica GT750 Suzukis being the 1st to capitalise on this level of interest. It wasn't a new idea, look at the Malcolm Uphill replica Thruxton Bonnevilles of the late 60's.
However, the idea WAS to put, as original, 'bikes on the track. Later technological improvements allowed slight change, but essentially the 'bikes remained 'as was'.
Today's crop of 'plastic rockets' seen on the roads (on warm, dry days - they don't ride them to work any more!), are the direct descendants from the Sheene Replica ideas of the '70s. If someone decides to ride a machine that is EXACTLY as it was in it's day, that should be ok. I can't speak on the 'Health & Safety' ideas that seem to have sparked this post off, but I guess it's an argument that has 2 DEFINITE sides. My 1967 Tiger Cub was a long way off those I see at Trials now, with special frames and engine parts, yet sporting their 1960's Number Plates.

[rcs]

I know nothing about scrambling, but why are folding pegs needed?

I only ask out of interest, as for road racing they have to be solid!!

[stormer254]

Imagine Queen Boadicea riding through the Romans with the blades on her chariot wheels scything them down, if the blades had folded back, the Romans would have wet themselves laughing and where would we be now

[ADickerson]

Nice one Stormer. Can't think of anything to match your post so I'm going for the boring option of trying to answer the question. From my understanding it's because so many people have had their ankles broken when the footpeg hits the back of leg. Don't ask me how you get your leg in that position, I don't know, but I've done enough times myself to be grateful to have fold ups instead of rigids. I suspect the Insurers insisted upon it because of the number of incidents and subsequent payouts of this nature.
Going back to your original post I couldn't agree more you Geoff. One consolation is that the machines that compete in the Greeves series are very close to original spec and far closer than any other classes you are likely to see elsewhere.

[druid]

Adrian,
You are not a natural leg dangler but plenty are. Your foot stays where it is and the bike moves forward whacking your leg and sometimes breaking it. I know people say it doesn't help having folding pegs but I have seen bruised calves which would have been broken legs without folding pegs. People don't always agree, that's their decision but if they want to play with us they need folding pegs - nothing to do with ego's or bending rules.

Druid

[geoff lemar]

foot pegs

Ok, Druid you win with the foot pegs, Motorcycle racing is dangerous anyway thats why you sign a disclaimer form before you ride So I guess we are heading for AIRBAGS to be fitted and all the jumps taken out and have breath testing on every corner and speeding finds if you go to fast and have the tracks graded after every race that would make it even safer!!! PS sorry for the sarcasm I couldn't help my self. keep them original I say.

[druid]

Geoff,

Don't worry about the sarcasm, all good fun.

Why don't you fit a pair of the US market folding pegs, then they'll be OK for racing and original Greeves fitment - that's what I did on my MX4.

Druid

[geoff lemar]

Foot pegs

Thanks Druid, A friend of mine is a metal fabricator and is a very clever man I was going to get him to copy the sub frame but with folding pegs on it so I can just unbolt the originals and bolt on the girlie pegs. But is there a sub frame already available ? if so how much and where do I get my hands on one?