Scramble frame identity.

[dave higgins]

Hi, to everyone, can any one recognise this early frame for me.
The frame number is 728? s, which should make it a 1957 scramble frame. but i`m not sure about the back end.
As with most greeves frames i`ve seen, this one has a wider swing arm & the s/absorbers are not offset, it is symetrical either side.
It is origanal in that nothing has been added or removed & the brake linkage does look like that of an early hawkstone.
It did come with scottish type hubs & a 19" rear rim origanally, but they were possibly added on. also can anyone confirm that a 60/1733 is a scottish frame & were they all registered. thanks for any info & i would like to say what a great forum you are running. dave. sorry cannot seem to upload pictures at present. will try again.

[Brian Thompson]

Frame Numbers And Identity.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your kind words about the forum.

As far as your frames go, obviously if you can post some pics it would be a big help. 'Basic Users' can post pics, but they must be 'hosted' eleswhere. Of course, the easiest way to do it is to join the club and get your forum membership upgraded. There's lots of help and advice available in the GRA!

728?/S suggests it may be a 20S scrambler frame, and this model would have had 'friction' suspension (metalastiks) at the rear end as well as on the forks, hence why the layout may seem different. I suppose someone could have even tried to 'modify' it at some point, and fitted rear shocks...? I've attached a pic to give you an example to look at (see below.)

1957 20S Scrambles Scrambler 197cc Villiers 9E M3 7251/S

Moving on, 60/1733 suggests your other frame may be a 24TCS;

1960 24TCS Scottish Trials 246cc Villiers 32A M13 60/1400

However, if the year number was '59 it would be a 24SCS, and the number is a bit nearer;

1959 24SAS Hawkstone Special Scrambler 246cc Villiers 31A M7C 59/1701

The only way to be completely certain is by checking them against the original factory dispatch records. The GRA hold these in the archive, and club members can easily contact the relevant officer and a check can be made. Further info is often available, such as which dealer the bike(s) were dispatched to and any 'special' options ordered with the machine(s), i.e. lighting set, paddle hubs etc. Click on this link for more details;

http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/archives

However, in order to access this service you would need to be a GRA member. Click on this link for details on how to join;

http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/MF0307.pdf

Hope this helps!

Brian.

[dave higgins]

scramble frame

Thanks for reply brian.
Yes thats exactly what its like apart from the top mounts, as the frame has been blast cleaned you can see very clearly that the top mounts are origanal bracketry & consistant quality with the rest of the brazed joints. Prehaps it was an in between model or proto type of some kind.
any way my membership is on its way & when i can will upload some pics of my 380 twin port & hawkstone bikes, dave.

[Brian Thompson]

Frame Identities.

My pleasure Dave, and good for you! I'm delighted to hear that you're joining the club, and I'm sure you won't regret it!

Regarding your early frame, I wonder if it's possible that someone could have 'substituted' a later rear frame (the upper part that bolts to the main frame)...? That might explain things....maybe! Be good to see some pics when you get everything sorted, and see what other members make of it.

Looking forward to seeing some pics of your other bikes as well-they sound interesting!

Brian.