Griffon models vs other bikes on the classic scrambles scene

[dave higgins]

Hi adrian, wise words, well said, i will now punish myself with a hot poker for being so shallow!!!..... money indeed!!.......

[ADickerson]

Respect Dave. You put into one humorous line what it takes me a page to laboriously try to put across. Are you sure you don't write for one of our celebrated comedianes?

[Kim275]

I bought a new 250 Griffon in late 1969. As far as racing goes It was a very frustrating relationship. The clutch was hard to pull. It was difficult to shift because of the ergonomics of the gear lever/foot peg. The ignition was always wet and the points would close up.

Dean Interesting first hand experience on the early 250 Griff........I have solved the ignition and footrest issues - but in year 2011 - the clutch is a beast very stiff - and hence very hard to get a good start...whereas my 380 QUB has a fantastic clutch. I checked with Dave Harpur and he said the lever arm on the early 250 griff was wrong (too short presumably) - and hence stiff - so easy to sort if you can find a later replacement.
Cheers Kim

[dave higgins]

I wonder if the 250 clutch arm being incorrect also applies to early 380 twinports as well, any one know as i have rebuilt my clutch twice with very little improvement.
I use a clutch lightner at present but would like to get it back origanol spec. dave.

[Kim275]

Hi Dave - this is possible as they were same gearbox - but would need to defer to one of the Greeves experts - Druid and kenny could probably advise.

If you are heading to MArks Tey on the 29th for the East Anglian Grand National - then take a look at my 380 QUB and compare it (#275) ...and of course Dave Harpur should be there - and he will know. Cheers Kim


[Dave just one quick cross check - Make sure of course the clutch is adjusted correctly. I suffered on my QUB with stiffness - till Dave H sorted it out. Make sure with the cable completely slackened off that the clutch rod/lever is adjusted so it is pushed far right - close to the inspection hole - but still has some play in it. This maximises the lever arm. Tighten up your clutch rod end nut and then take up (most) slack in cable - but again making sure you still have some slack on your clutch (hand) lever ]

[Andy Z]

NEB anyone?

Hi Dave - this is possible as they were same gearbox - but would need to defer to one of the Greeves experts - Druid and kenny could probably advise.

If you are heading to MArks Tey on the 29th for the East Anglian Grand National - then take a look at my 380 QUB and compare it (#275) ...and of course Dave Harpur should be there - and he will know. Cheers Kim


[Dave just one quick cross check - Make sure of course the clutch is adjusted correctly. I suffered on my QUB with stiffness - till Dave H sorted it out. Make sure with the cable completely slackened off that the clutch rod/lever is adjusted so it is pushed far right - close to the inspection hole - but still has some play in it. This maximises the lever arm. Tighten up your clutch rod end nut and then take up (most) slack in cable - but again making sure you still have some slack on your clutch (hand) lever ]

Hi Guys,

My 36MX4 has a Griffon clutch and I'm having to use boxer's hand grippers to
build-up the muscles in my hands, after my experience at Maylandsea!

I will attempt to adjust the clutch as Kim suggests, and report the results. It makes perfect sense, so hopefully might make a difference.

I also plan changing the cable to a Venhill nylon thingy, which should help too.

As a matter of interest, has anyone tried a NEB clutch on a Greeves?

Cheers,
Andrew
#190

[dave higgins]

Thanks kim, good little tip about the p/rod adjustment being set to the right to optimise the clutch arm operation, i`ll go back & check again, but i`m pretty sure i tried just about everything at the time.
The g/box on mine is sweet & changes positive everytime, but when i bought it the seller said it had all been rebuilt by jeff nunn, so i`m hoping he was telling the truth, if anything the only problem i`ve had that effects the ride are the footpegs, slipsters or what, fine dry, but wet they are useless & i would change them, but for the sake of origanality, no, no gripes from me, a good british motocross bike that will frighten the hell out of the nancies & put a smile on real mans face.
By the way, does any body know anyone selling or making foam air filter elements for the 380 twin air boxes or most people modifying. dave.

[Kim275]

Hi Dave - agree on footrests ! I kept original but had some plates tack welded bent round and teeth cut for grip - take a look at my bike on 29th . Terry sewell should have some foam filters cheers Kim

[Bearingman]

OK, I’m going to weigh in on this Griffon stuff. (Just my observations and perspective from the U.S.) I started racing scrambles/motocross in 1966, on a Gold Star. After a few other machines I bought a new 250 Griffon in late 1969. As far as racing goes It was a very frustrating relationship. The clutch was hard to pull. It was difficult to shift because of the ergonomics of the gear lever/foot peg. The ignition was always wet and the points would close up. As a comparison, I got a sidepipe CZ in 1970. I regularly raced both bikes on the same day. Once the Jikov carb was replaced with a Mikuni, it was a flawless race bike. Nearly indestructible, fast and easy to ride. At least where I raced, I rarely saw another Griffon.

As far as vintage racing today is concerned, I think you could count the number of Griffons racing in the U.S. on one hand. I’m sure Kenny could add to this. The Villiers powered variants seem to be the most popular, then Challengers and then Griffons. It seems the number of machines for sale and their values follow the same trend. (For reference, in AHRMA events, all 250 Challengers and Griffons race together, mostly against twin pipe CZs, 4-speed OSSAs and late 250 BSA/Triumphs.)

Dean Newton
Seattle, USA

Hi Dean,

At Brad Lackey's race Saturday, we had 3 Greeves show up, with 1 other who refused to ride the track and went home. My 250 Griffon, an MX5 Challenger and a 24MCS...I did see 1 AJS Stormer in my class...last pushing it off the track.

Dean is correct, not very many Griffons show up. They are an excellent pick for our "Classic Class" here in the states which Dean described.

I built mine in 1998 or so and just went through it over the winter for the first time. It has been very reliable. There are just a few things to be fixed and looked after.

The first thing is... I never use the dykes ring piston! I fitted an electronic ignition and per our rules, a 32mm Amal MKII is used.

My dad and I built a nice header pipe without that ill-fitted stock bend job. I have the early style pegs and even use the short gear lever...but I do have small feet. I do have the later bridged exhaust port barrel which I just match up the transfers ports to the cases as they were always badly mismatched.

Other little things like shortening the rear seat loop an inch and moving the tank and seat forward a little.

As far as the clutch pull, mine is fairly light. I do away with the old steel controls which were garbage anyhow and use a good cable with no kinks.

My G/B works really well with very few missed shifts.

Here is a pic of it.

Kenny Sykes

[John-Boy]

NEB Anyone?

Andy asked: As a matter of interest, has anyone tried a NEB clutch on a Greeves?

I have one on my 36MX4, very light to operate, doesn't drag or slip, half the weight of a Challenger clutch but damned expensive.

[Bearingman]

Andy asked: As a matter of interest, has anyone tried a NEB clutch on a Greeves?

I have one on my 36MX4, very light to operate, doesn't drag or slip, half the weight of a Challenger clutch but damned expensive.

Hi John,

Wow! That is one nice looking clutch! How much does one these babies set you back?

Regards,
Kenny

[Andy Z]

Andy asked: As a matter of interest, has anyone tried a NEB clutch on a Greeves?

I have one on my 36MX4, very light to operate, doesn't drag or slip, half the weight of a Challenger clutch but damned expensive.

Hi John,

I want one!! I saw one for sale at the Telford show but didn't dare ask the price. Difficult to beat really, easy to rebuild, cheap plates, light to use etc...

What's a 5-spline Griffon clutch worth? I might be selling one soon!

Cheers,
Andrew

[John-Boy]

Hi John,

I want one!! I saw one for sale at the Telford show but didn't dare ask the price. Difficult to beat really, easy to rebuild, cheap plates, light to use etc...

What's a 5-spline Griffon clutch worth? I might be selling one soon!

Cheers,
Andrew

Andy/Kenny

When I bought mine three years ago it cost me £450! At the time, used five-spline Griffon clutches were rarely available and were fetching about £300.

I believe new Griffon clutches are now available from Simon Bateman cheaper than the NEB which is getting close to £500.

There is a picture of the NEB clutch in bits and their other products here:

http://www.joemaxwell-engineering.com/shop.html

It is all beautifully made stuff, much of it for unit construction BSA's.

[dave higgins]

Going slightly off track but still on griffons, does anyone know what the maximum radial movement is for the crank when cold, also can the crank seals be fitted from the external side, the engine is a 69 380.
Kenny, if you are discarding the old steel push rod what are you replacing it with, another steel or something better, dave.
Sorry kenny, i read the bit about the push rod somewhere else & not in your post, apologises, dave.

[stormer254]

In my 360's I just use the original Albion clutch, I use Enfield springs and plates and it works fine, I only use the clutch for starts as I find the round gearbox that I use in all my bikes doesn't need the clutch for changes and is generally very positive.This also saves a lot of money