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**Brian Thompson** · 23/06/2012, 01:03 PM

Fleetwing story.

Hi Bryan, and many thanks for posting you interesting story for us to see.

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty (with my forum moderator hat on) of moving your post from the thread about 'British Pathe/Greeves Film Clips' to here, in the 'Road machines' area.

The reason I have done this, in case you may be new to forums, is because your post is really a 'new topic', and all posts in that thread should relate to the original thread title, i.e. 'Rare and Historic Greeves Films From the British Pathe Archive'.

Please don't worry, you haven't transgressed in any way! It's just that it's important to keep threads 'on topic' as far as possible. This is because the whole forum is 'searchable', and a post like yours could easily get 'lost' if it's posted in a thread to which it doesn't really relate. For example, if in a month or two, someone on here by chance happens across the frame you mention in your post and wants to find your thread to refer to it, they are more likely to look here (in the 'Road Machines' area) than in the thread about about the 'British Pathe Greeves Films' in the 'Archives' area.

Put simply, if you have a new point to make, please feel free to start a new thread. If you want to reply to an existing thread, please ensure your reply relates to that thread. We are very flexible on here about threads wandering 'off- topic' here and there as they develop, but if it goes too far, later posts in a thread can end up bearing no relation to the original thread title, and useful and interesting information can get 'lost' as mentioned earlier.

This practice is fairly standard for all internet forums, and I'm sure you can appreciate the thinking behind it.

Anyway Bryan, once again thanks for your interesting post, the first of many I hope, and who knows, someone on here might even know of your old frame...Stranger things have happened!

Kind regards,

Brian.

**bryan** · 25/06/2012, 10:00 AM

interesting fleetwing

Hi Brian,thanks for your reply and I certainly don't mind you shifting my post.I will be very surprised if anyone has seen my old Fleetwing as the last time I saw it was in Germany,[not to sure if I made that clear],anyway one never knows.The really funny thing about that bike is I never took a photo of it and it was my favourite bike of all time and my latest 25dc is my 19th machine and I'v got snaps of everyone of them except the Greeves !

**Colin Sparrow** · 26/06/2012, 06:58 AM

25D Fleetwing

Just in case anyone's forgotten what a Villiers-engined Fleetwing looks like, here's a nice one I was photographing last week. Heavy old lump for a 250 - steel mudguards don't help. Big comfy seat and a nice riding position though.

No hole in the beam I'm glad to say!

Attached Files

**John Wakefield** · 26/06/2012, 09:15 AM

Twin brake drums on front, I suppose with all that weight it needed some stopping. Headlamp & its mounting brackets look ugly though

**bryan** · 26/06/2012, 10:54 AM

interesting fleetwing

Tell you what Colin, although it has been 52 years since I bought my Fleetwing I still remember that big comfy seat, [wish my dc was as good], but I really don't remember it being heavy or difficult to stop.Great pics by the way,anyone else got any ?

**Brian Thompson** · 26/06/2012, 12:57 PM

'Quirkiness'?..or 'Uglier than running out of Marmite?'

I know just what you mean John, and Colin makes a very valid point about the extra weight as well, from the dynamic viewpoint of the design.

Coming back to the looks though, speaking for myself I have to say I like 'em! Very much like the DCX model, another bike I admire for various reasons, but another Greeves roadster model with styling that can divide opinion. It is in part what I find so charming about them. They are certainly bold! The colours too play a part, and in league with the styling, I bet they certainly caught peoples eye when they were first 'unleashed' on an unsuspecting public! A good way for a small manufacturer to 'stand out in the crowd' perhaps.

With the Fleetwing, I often find myself pondering some of the commercial aircraft of the day and following similar styling cues, especially aerodynamic shapes resulting from cargo carrrying considerations. It also always seems to bring to my mind the Francis-Barnett Fulmar for some reason, a design firmly associated with aerodynmic thinking of the day.

Compared to the more 'ride to work' styling of many contemporary machines of similar type I think these bikes must have challenged opinions back then as well, which also adds to their relative rarity these days I suppose. But they are certainly a colourful and quirky respite from the somewhat utilitarian 'everday' bikes of the time in my view, and I think the DCX added a real practical touch with that little half fairing along with it's 'flamboyance'. I bet the hand protection was welcome on a cold commute!

Ultimately, I think I like the Fleetwing (and DCX) design because it has so much 'personality' in it, and is so different to the arguably more conservative offerings of many other manufacturers of the day. I admire Greeves for trying something a bit different and fresh, and I think they ended up with a quite unique and interesting bike in both cases, irrrespective of any commercial sucess. For me, those 'quirky' lines somehow gives them a 'signature' and a sense of 'identity' that I find very pleasing, but I can see how other people may disagree....

Which brings us back to Marmite again....!

Brian.

Attached Files

**Brian Thompson** · 26/06/2012, 01:05 PM

Fleetwing pics.

Originally posted by bryan View Post

Great pics by the way,anyone else got any ?

Hi Bryan,

Just in case you haven't seen them already, there are few posted on a recent thread here;http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...ead.php?t=3272

Brian.

**Colin Sparrow** · 26/06/2012, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Brian Thompson View Post

Which brings us back to Marmite again....!

Brian.

You wait until you see what I have to say about the DCX in the August Leading Link...

**Stuart Baskill** · 26/06/2012, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Brian Thompson View Post

Hi Bryan,

Just in case you haven't seen them already, there are few posted on a recent thread here;http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...ead.php?t=3272

Brian.

Thanks for the pics.I,m trying to rebuild a 20D 1956 model and I cant decide if it should have the teardrop shaped toolbox.Do you have any pics with the small round trials type toolbox on a 20D? Does anybody have an original 20D from 1956 and if so what toolbox does it have.I think Greeves changed specs when they wanted not every August like big manufacturers.Any pics of a 20R3 would also help another rebuild.Thanks

**riflegreen** · 26/06/2012, 02:30 PM

We had a runabout DCX in the Comp Shop , had a try out version of a rear disc brake .

Chris

**AndyB** · 26/06/2012, 03:34 PM

Fleetwing?

Originally posted by Stuart Baskill View Post

Thanks for the pics.I,m trying to rebuild a 20D 1956 model and I cant decide if it should have the teardrop shaped toolbox.Do you have any pics with the small round trials type toolbox on a 20D? Does anybody have an original 20D from 1956 and if so what toolbox does it have.I think Greeves changed specs when they wanted not every August like big manufacturers.

I have posted earlier about my recent acquisition - a 'kitform' 25D registered September 1958.
In theory, it should look very much like the one Colin has photographed and which was the subject of an article in 'Classic Bike' in February 1998 (does it still belong to Peter Pluck?) - however - having loosely reassembled the bits, it currently looks as per the attached photos. I'm not sure, but the alloy guards and the tank appear to belong to a 1959 25DB, and the toolbox very neatly acts as a bracket for the rear mudguard.
The 2T motor is being worked on by Villiers Services.
Any comments to guide me in how to proceed will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Andy

Attached Files

**bult360** · 26/06/2012, 04:53 PM

fleetwing

Anybody ever see the road test vic willoughby did on i presume a fleetwing fitted with a 350cc RCA two stroke twin that had side facing exhaust ports ? We had a Dot Roadracer that was fitted with one of these motors , they were made by r christoforides and associates with a lot of the design work done by peter hogan of bantam fame . It was a good motor realy , didnt realy rev though until extra transfers were milled in to the barrell and expansion chambers fitted . I have the road test somewhere and will try and root it out and see if i can scan it

**John Wakefield** · 26/06/2012, 05:02 PM

Fleetwing

Andy, are you sure this is a Fleetwing as the rear sub frame looks DC rather than D or even DB. The toolbox looks more like a Scottish trials one, & the square section down tube is non standard particularly on a roadster. Looks like someone has made this up to compensate for the 25DB/DC tool box. The petrol tank is DB/DC roadster. What is the frame number? but of course the beam could have been changed. The front hub looks Fleetwing though. The registration is 1958 (Hertfordshire) which would have been the last year of the Fleetwing. Looks like someone has 'mixed & matched' a few parts from different models.

**AndyB** · 26/06/2012, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post

What is the frame number? but of course the beam could have been changed. The front hub looks Fleetwing though. The registration is 1958 (Hertfordshire) which would have been the last year of the Fleetwing. Looks like someone has 'mixed & matched' a few parts from different models.

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply.
The frame number is 8479 / 25D.

Andy

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Interesting Fleetwing.

Interesting Fleetwing.

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