New Member from Wiltshire

[Colin Sparrow]

No such thing as a 24TA. The 31A model (246cc) was the 24TAS.

59/1534 is indeed a 24TAS and does appear in the dispatch record. The 24TAS frame numbers are entered in a very random fashion (they were selling a heck of a lot of the model in 1959!) so to save Peter time, I'll stretch a point and tell you that the original engine of that bike was 863B/153.

The notion that the designation "S" designated a special version is incorrect. The "special" bike was the 20TAT which had a specially tuned 9E. "T" for tuned, see?

[John Wakefield]

One difference between the 20TA & the 24TAS (apart from the bigger engine) was the provision of a rear chain oiler, the oil was contained in the tubes of the swinging arm, the filler being sited on the left hand side near pivot & metered to the chain via needle valve. (info C&W Greeves book)

[Mike Norris]

A while ago I was talking to Dave Harper about my 360 Challenger having been told that it was the show bike at Earls Court.
Dave said that the letter S was stamped onto the bikes put into Earls Court.
Perhaps this might explain the frame no..
Mike

[Colin Sparrow]

The notion that the designation "S" designated a special version is incorrect. The "special" bike was the 20TAT which had a specially tuned 9E. "T" for tuned, see?

Slight clarification, if I may. The tuned 20TA was actually marketed as the 20TAS - perhaps DPC decided that "TAT" sounded derogatory?

In the dispatch records the file for that model is called 20TAT, so presumably that was the name used at the factory.

So apologies JW, the "S" in 20TAS does mean "special". But all the 250s are 24TAS.

[CharlieD]

Colin,
Thank you....I have your book, very interesting and a joy to read.

Indeed I have the engine 863B 153 in the bike but slight difference to your book as it is marked as an engine type 32A not 31A.

John, mine has the chain oiler built into the swinging arm.

How do I get a copy of the despatch records, and would they help me re registering it with the original reg number?

[John Wakefield]

Looks like a new engine plate from Villiers Services stamped with original number but on a 32A plate VS have new blank plates which they stamp up with the relevant number, the 32A bit is embossed on the plate & cannot be changed so the correct blank needs to be used, they should have 31A ones in stock as these were common on the Bond Minicar.
As I said in a previous post you can get a copy of dispatch record from Pete Smith. As for getting the original number back that depends on:-
a) If you know the number
b) If its still available, may have been sold off and now on another vehicle
c) Assuming number not transferred then you will need to have documents linking reg. No to frame number. ie old Mot, Insurance cert, or original reg record. An old tax disc on its own is no longer unacceptable to DVLA.

[CharlieD]

John,
Thanks.

[John Wakefield]

According to the Villiers engine listing 863B is a 32A and a Greeves application.

[IanCordes]

Interesting that, as according to the Bacon 'Villiers Singles & Twins' the 863B designated 32A was first used by Greeves in the 24TCS in 1960, then 24TDS & 24TE & TES. However Charlie's 24TAS appears to have come from the factory fitted with the 32A, presumably in 1959.

[John Wakefield]

Interesting that, as according to the Bacon 'Villiers Singles & Twins' the 863B designated 32A was first used by Greeves in the 24TCS in 1960, then 24TDS & 24TE & TES. However Charlie's 24TAS appears to have come from the factory fitted with the 32A, presumably in 1959.

Probably an error by Bacon in compiling his Villiers engine data list. The same omission was made by Carrick in his Villiers Everybodies Engine.
The Greeves records will be correct.

[IanCordes]

I am not sure if it was an error, because both Colin and Carrick & Walker agree that the 1959 TAS was fitted with a 31A, the engines of which would have a different designation, not 863B, which was definitely a Greeves-spec 32A. Charlie's bike appears to have been fitted with a 32A from new; Colin has confirmed the number. Maybe it was a late 1959 model which was fitted with the then new 32A? Who knows now?

[John Wakefield]

The Villiers engine lists are far from comprehensive, I spoke with Rob Carrick many times, he had no official Villiers records to go on and found info in other publications and from his own records. He gave me several updates. There are many engine types missing which turn up from time to time, I am adding them to my copy as they become known.

[garybam4711]

My 24 tas has a 32a and correct as old green logbook from new 1959

[IanCordes]

There we have it. Gary has one too. It seems likely that, as soon as the 32A came on the scene at some point in 1959, it was fitted to the remaining 24TAS
production, prior to being superceded by the 24TCS. This detail does not appear to be recorded in any of the relevant publications, presumably because it was never widely known. Interesting for Greeves historians; the story is still unfolding.

[IanCordes]

Having spoken to Gary, and seen his original registration document, his 24TAS is 59/1519. Given they started at 59/1501, his is the 19th, and was fitted with a 32A from new. It makes you wonder if the records are wrong, and that maybe the 24TAS was fitted with the 32A from the start, not the 31A?

See attached, courtesy of Gary B.