Birmingham Motorcycle Museum

[Colin Sparrow]

Hi Peter,

It's the "dead" Silverstone we don't know the number of. The one in there now is 24RCS155 - I've seen that with my own eyes (even though I did have to climb over the rope to get it!)

Be great if someone does know, at least we can record its grisley fate on the racer database.

By the way, has anyone out there got my old racer 24RCS156? It's still recorded on the database as belonging to me, but sadly it doesn't. Now that was one cracking little racer... (the bike, not me!)

[Stuart Baskill]

On the topic of what is found in there, I've got friends who helped 'recreate' the damaged 'bikes, starting with very little other than photo's in some cases.
However, before his death, Roy Richards had staff circling the world, (and Auctions/Sales sections in Magazines), for interesting 'bikes. They appeared to have blank cheque books with no limit! Consequently some very rare items reappeared in the UK or blinking into the light from the 'hedge funds' of non-motorcyclists. Either way he has left us with a legacy of otherwise 'lost' history. I met him often, and once you got past the wealth, he was a decent type, a 'businessman' but with integrity.
The problem of Motorcycles is simple......there were so many types made, where do you draw the line? I have a map of all the Motorcycle Manufacturers in B'ham around the Great War time. My Great Grandfather (METRO - Ladywood) was just one of them. There must be over 50 shown. In Coventry there were as many, London?

"I wonder if they've got a Spagforth Whippet anywhere? 72cc of pure gutwrenching power, outdragged a BSA Beagle and Ariel Pixie without trying...I've seen Vincent riders blanch when one pulled up alongside them at the lights on the Great North Road..."(Memoirs of a 'Ton-Up boy. Ivor Rhode-Rokitt. Penguin 2/6d)

Is there a Metro in the museum? Is Ladywood a district of Birmingham? Do you know how many Metro,s were made and how many different types? Very interesting.

[Brian Thompson]

NMM Greeves Lost To The Fire.

For reference, I've managed to dig out a few more pics of the Greeves that were lost to the fire at the NMM.

Pic 1; 1955 20T Trials.
Pic 2; 1963 ISDT International.
Pic 3; 1965 Silverstone.

Brian.

[Phil Hyde]

Museum

I have it in my head that the ISDT bike lost in the fire had no frame number and although it was a very nice restoration it was representation of the original. I have nothing to substatiate this. Perhaps others would care to comment.

I haven't been since the fire and subsequent rebuilding but I gather that many of the lost machines have been reborn or replaced. The cafe was always a stopping off point coming back from trials up North. The tea and cake were reasonably priced.

Although not a Greeves, the biggest single loss in my opinion was the unique Triumph Quadrant. The still born 4 cylinder Trident.

Phil

[Peter Rotherham]

NMM Fire.

Phil, the ISDT did have a Frame No, and was one that had been used by (?) one of the Sharps.....I've got it's history somewhere......pause while I raid my bookshelves...ARRRGH! its gone! It must be here somewhere, a book that I bought many years ago from the NMM which listed each machine they'd bought, giving details. (It was the predecessor to the 'Bikes of the NMM' that you can buy today. It was priceless, I got my copy via Bob Currie).
Unfortunately my house is in uproar as we are converting it to allow my Dad to come home. I'll look it out, maybe find it by the time I've finished my TE...(see caption Competition)

[Peter Rotherham]

Is there a Metro in the museum? Is Ladywood a district of Birmingham? Do you know how many Metro,s were made and how many different types? Very interesting.

Hi Stuart....Yes, though as Metro-Tyler, the make was bought out by Tylers of London in the 20's. 2 versions, both using Villiers engines, a Ladies with step through frame, and a Gents. Yes, Ladywood is just to the west of the City Centre, behind the NIA. Once the Parliamentary Seat of Neville Chamberlain, very heavily industrialised, with high density housing. All now swept away. Not much history survives beyond a few PR Photos and some Headed documents. There were hundreds of small manufacturers at this time. It is a similar period to the late 50's/early 60's when Greeves started up. Many small plants, using Villiers engines. Most had a 10 - 15 year life span, Greeves managed almost 25 as a motorcycle factory which makes them somewhat special. DOT & Cotton survived in weaker forms beyond that though.

[Stuart Baskill]

I have it in my head that the ISDT bike lost in the fire had no frame number and although it was a very nice restoration it was representation of the original. I have nothing to substatiate this. Perhaps others would care to comment.

I haven't been since the fire and subsequent rebuilding but I gather that many of the lost machines have been reborn or replaced. The cafe was always a stopping off point coming back from trials up North. The tea and cake were reasonably priced.

Although not a Greeves, the biggest single loss in my opinion was the unique Triumph Quadrant. The still born 4 cylinder Trident.

Phil

I am sure that I saw a 4 cylinder Trident in there on 6-11-10 as I took a long look at the welded crankcase.The info with it sounded like it was the original but it could have been a 1% original like others.

[Stuart Baskill]

Hi Stuart....Yes, though as Metro-Tyler, the make was bought out by Tylers of London in the 20's. 2 versions, both using Villiers engines, a Ladies with step through frame, and a Gents. Yes, Ladywood is just to the west of the City Centre, behind the NIA. Once the Parliamentary Seat of Neville Chamberlain, very heavily industrialised, with high density housing. All now swept away. Not much history survives beyond a few PR Photos and some Headed documents. There were hundreds of small manufacturers at this time. It is a similar period to the late 50's/early 60's when Greeves started up. Many small plants, using Villiers engines. Most had a 10 - 15 year life span, Greeves managed almost 25 as a motorcycle factory which makes them somewhat special. DOT & Cotton survived in weaker forms beyond that though.

Have you ever tried to aquire one of your grandads bikes or recreate one.I think that I would if my grandad had made them.

[druid]

Regarding the museum's ISDT Greeves:- This was Peter Stirland's bike used in the '63 ISDT in Czecho. It was owned by Pat Davy, DOT guru and VMCC stalwart before passing on to the NMM. Pat used it to follow events at the 1971 ISDT in IOM.
The bike wasn't a bad restoration but the restorer either had duff info or was colour blind. It was finished in what I can only describe as gloss NATO green!

Druid

[Rob]

Yes, just dug out my copy of 'Classic Competition Motorcycles' (from the NMM) by dear old Bob Currie. The ISDT & 20T is in there but not the Silverstone.
I got quite excited earlier when someone said the ISDT was 1961 (one of my fetishes at the moment!) but alas, it is '63.

STILL WANTED! Pics of the '61 ISDT bikes or any other '61 info! Plus a TES frame with V5!

[Stuart Baskill]

Theres a new Greeves addition to join the Griffon and the 2 Silverstones (1 is the original prototype) at the Birmingham Motorcycle Museum.Its in Scottish trim with the number 59/3206 I think.That number is not in our identify chart.It differs in several ways from original basic Scottish models so dont copy it for your rebuilds.Nobody can possibly be expert in every make and model in this superb museum with around 700 British bikes.Why do we call them British bikes when 99.9% are English?I realise that England is not PC nowadays.Rant over !!!! None standard things are at least alloy rims,finned front hub only,front mudguard loop,monobloc carb,rear shocks,seat.Also I have always wondered why when cylinder bores are in mm,rebores are plus .010 inches etc.Does anybody know why they differ? Back to the museum.This must be the best museum in the world for British bikes with an entry price of £4.95 for the over 60,s relics like me.All indoors and now with a comprehensive fire alarm system.There must be over 400 Vintage and Veterans many unique.All in imacculate condition.

Its now £6.95 for the over 60,s and the Silverstone frame number is 24RCS155