Birmingham Motorcycle Museum

[Stuart Baskill]

Theres a new Greeves addition to join the Griffon and the 2 Silverstones (1 is the original prototype) at the Birmingham Motorcycle Museum.Its in Scottish trim with the number 59/3206 I think.That number is not in our identify chart.It differs in several ways from original basic Scottish models so dont copy it for your rebuilds.Nobody can possibly be expert in every make and model in this superb museum with around 700 British bikes.Why do we call them British bikes when 99.9% are English?I realise that England is not PC nowadays.Rant over !!!! None standard things are at least alloy rims,finned front hub only,front mudguard loop,monobloc carb,rear shocks,seat.Also I have always wondered why when cylinder bores are in mm,rebores are plus .010 inches etc.Does anybody know why they differ? Back to the museum.This must be the best museum in the world for British bikes with an entry price of £4.95 for the over 60,s relics like me.All indoors and now with a comprehensive fire alarm system.There must be over 400 Vintage and Veterans many unique.All in imacculate condition.

[Peter Rotherham]

National Motorcycle Museum.

Hi Stuart, (and Others), I, like many other 50's relics have been involved with this since day 1. Many may recall those young ladies who infested every Race Track and Show in the 70's selling Raffle Tickets for the Museum. With a few others, we even bought some bricks!
With the decline in the MC retail/servicing industry in the early 80's I was offered a job there, restoring 'bikes. I chose not to accept it, as my then employer gave me a raise, with a promise of £3,000 worth of "Firms Bike" if I stayed on. Stupidly I did so and 18 months later was redundant! However some of my mates still do work for them, on a contract basis.
I visited the place several times and was concerned that the 'bikes were jammed in together. No Fire Sprinkler system either. Living only a few miles from it, I saw the pall of smoke when it went up in flames, and was not suprised at what happened. Hopefully, that has been addressed now.
In the early days of the GRA, and the DOT Club, I went to several Meetings there. They had/have a very good restaurant there. (You really need all day to go round it.) In the 90's the management got a bit above themselves, trying to market it as an upmarket Conference Centre. I, along with others, were turned away as "They didn't want scruffy 'Bikers in the building". Frank Westworth then of Classic Bike Guide sorted that one!
However, that said, it is perhaps one of the jewels of the Motorcycle world. Just to follow the progress of something as simple as the oiling system, from syringe pumps, to Pilgrim 'total loss' types, to the modern, internal trochoids, is an education. I used their Green ISDT Greeves to rebuild my TE, (Sadly it died in the fire.)

One thing I do miss is their Monster Autojumbles, held in the field at the back, one day over half the site was full of Villiers engines and bikes that used them.....Makes you weep!

[Stuart Baskill]

Hi Stuart, (and Others), I, like many other 50's relics have been involved with this since day 1. Many may recall those young ladies who infested every Race Track and Show in the 70's selling Raffle Tickets for the Museum. With a few others, we even bought some bricks!
With the decline in the MC retail/servicing industry in the early 80's I was offered a job there, restoring 'bikes. I chose not to accept it, as my then employer gave me a raise, with a promise of £3,000 worth of "Firms Bike" if I stayed on. Stupidly I did so and 18 months later was redundant! However some of my mates still do work for them, on a contract basis.
I visited the place several times and was concerned that the 'bikes were jammed in together. No Fire Sprinkler system either. Living only a few miles from it, I saw the pall of smoke when it went up in flames, and was not suprised at what happened. Hopefully, that has been addressed now.
In the early days of the GRA, and the DOT Club, I went to several Meetings there. They had/have a very good restaurant there. (You really need all day to go round it.) In the 90's the management got a bit above themselves, trying to market it as an upmarket Conference Centre. I, along with others, were turned away as "They didn't want scruffy 'Bikers in the building". Frank Westworth then of Classic Bike Guide sorted that one!
However, that said, it is perhaps one of the jewels of the Motorcycle world. Just to follow the progress of something as simple as the oiling system, from syringe pumps, to Pilgrim 'total loss' types, to the modern, internal trochoids, is an education. I used their Green ISDT Greeves to rebuild my TE, (Sadly it died in the fire.)

One thing I do miss is their Monster Autojumbles, held in the field at the back, one day over half the site was full of Villiers engines and bikes that used them.....Makes you weep!

I think the hire of the rooms attached to the museum for computer fairs etc must be their biggest source of income.I dont think that I have ever seen 10 people in the museum at any one time.I probably go there 3 times a year when I take the family to the NEC.I wouldnt ever be described as elegant or even tidy so they let any riff raff in now.If I remember correctly the fire destroyed a 1954/5 20T as well as the ISDT.I took some pictures but they will be on that DVD of the museums collection with the rest of the fire damaged bikes.Its a good job that it was the newer bikes that were destroyed because they have been recreated whereas the veteran and vintage could not be replaced.Where else will you see about 15 Broughs,20 Vincents and probably 50 pre war vee twins.As you say the veterans are amazing as you try to work out the controls and odd attachments.What surprises me is what isnt there.Most of the bikes that I have owned are not represented there.

[Colin Sparrow]

IIf I remember correctly the fire destroyed a 1954/5 20T as well as the ISDT.

And a Silverstone as well...

[Peter Rotherham]

.i wouldnt ever be described as elegant or even tidy so they let any riff raff in now..

no argument from me!!!!

[Peter Rotherham]

National M/C Museum

On the topic of what is found in there, I've got friends who helped 'recreate' the damaged 'bikes, starting with very little other than photo's in some cases.
However, before his death, Roy Richards had staff circling the world, (and Auctions/Sales sections in Magazines), for interesting 'bikes. They appeared to have blank cheque books with no limit! Consequently some very rare items reappeared in the UK or blinking into the light from the 'hedge funds' of non-motorcyclists. Either way he has left us with a legacy of otherwise 'lost' history. I met him often, and once you got past the wealth, he was a decent type, a 'businessman' but with integrity.
The problem of Motorcycles is simple......there were so many types made, where do you draw the line? I have a map of all the Motorcycle Manufacturers in B'ham around the Great War time. My Great Grandfather (METRO - Ladywood) was just one of them. There must be over 50 shown. In Coventry there were as many, London?

"I wonder if they've got a Spagforth Whippet anywhere? 72cc of pure gutwrenching power, outdragged a BSA Beagle and Ariel Pixie without trying...I've seen Vincent riders blanch when one pulled up alongside them at the lights on the Great North Road..."(Memoirs of a 'Ton-Up boy. Ivor Rhode-Rokitt. Penguin 2/6d)

[Brian Thompson]

Greeves at the NMM (Post 1 of 2.)

A very interesting thread chaps, and thanks for all the insights Peter.

I had a dig and managed to find a few pics I took (in March 2005) of some of the bikes mentioned. Apologies for the low quality, but these were taken in pre digital camera days and I've re-photographed and cleaned them up as best as I could.

To begin, here's the ISDT bike that was lost in the fire. (I found this pic on the net.) The next three pics are of the Griffon that Stuart mentioned in his original post.

Brian.

[Brian Thompson]

Greeves at the NMM (Post 2 of 2.)

Here are the two Silverstone's mentioned by Stuart in his original post. The number 12 bike is the Reg Everett prototype.

The final pic is of the Silverstone that was brought in to replace the one that was lost in the fire, as Colin mentioned in an earlier post.

Brian.

[Colin Sparrow]

No 12 is indeed the 1962 Reg Everett prototype.

The other Silverstone at NMM is 24RCS155. It's all there except that it has been fitted with a kidney Albion 4-speed scrambler gearbox. A very common mod at the time as the first five-speeder (RBS,RCS) was such a load of rubbish.

[Brian Thompson]

Greeves at the NMM.

Thanks Colin.

It's good to know that 24RCS155 was not involved in the fire. A lovely machine, as I remember.

Brian.

[Colin Sparrow]

The museum acquired it after the fire to replace the one which was destroyed. Someone actually sent me a picture of the remains of the first one - I put it in LL; I'll see if I can find it.

I don't think we ever found out the frame number.

[Brian Thompson]

Thanks for correcting me and confirming that Colin, as I wasn't sure like I said.

I've revised my earlier post accordingly mate.

Brian.

[Colin Sparrow]

Here's the NMM pictures. The first is a detail from a wider view and the second zooms in even closer. They were published in LL119.

As you can see the beam has melted - it was hot in there - the alloy was heated to 730 degrees Centigrade before it was poured in the foundry...

[Stuart Baskill]

Here's the NMM pictures. The first is a detail from a wider view and the second zooms in even closer. They were published in LL119.

As you can see the beam has melted - it was hot in there - the alloy was heated to 730 degrees Centigrade before it was poured in the foundry...

If you want to see it before the fire its probably on the Duke DVD of the museum.I think Roy Richards, who created the museum,should have been Knighted.Unlike so called film stars etc,who get obscene wages,before being knighted.He must have spent a vast amount of his money and time to create this fabulous collection of British bikes.In fact it should have been called the Roy Richards National Motor Cycle Museum in his honour.I just hope that the collection is protected from ever being split up or sold.

[Peter Rotherham]

NMM Fire

Hi Col, and others!

As far as I know there is a covenant on the 'bikes to prevent any idiot from moving in and selling them off as 'investments'. Some, USED to be, on loan from owners, but I think all are owned by the NMM now. My old Bantam was in there having been bought off the lad I sold it to back in the late 70's. I'll ask Bob or Mick who do the restoration/painting for the NMM if they can find out (a) the Silverstone's Frame No, (I'm sure I've got it somewhere?) and, (b) what the 'ownership' clause is.