the shape of things to come!

[dave higgins]

With the constant reminders over the last few weeks, that the majority of the gra membership are old, & nearing the end of there time riding motorcycles, its fair to point out that, the future of the club, is going to be more reliant on the competition side of the marque, as by the nature of the sports themselves, the riders tend to be younger & fitter.
I can understand the young lads that joined the pre 65 club & race in the greeves series, helping keep the greeves name at the forefront of scrambling & the same applies to trials & road racing.
But who is going to get excited about inheriting grandads old roadbike....exactly, as has been said on here many times, even in there day, were classed in the grey porridge catagory.
Nice to see a concorse one in a museum, but would a youngster want to ride one? so whats going to become of them.
As has been stated, a short while ago, road bikes are deemed to be more collectable & assume a better resale value than the offroad variant.
If this was true, then its certainly going to change in a few years.
Most people tend to harbour a fondness for the bikes they cut there teeth on, & at some point in there life will return to what they know & feel comfortable with, & as each generation moves on, then the era of there first bikes do too.
Which means that the 60`s generation will probably be the last real custdodians for the greeves road bikes......

[John Wakefield]

the shape of things to come!

I dont often see eye to eye with you on Greeves matters Dave but have to admit you are mostly right in what you say, not so sure that the Greeves Sports Twins were considered 'grey porridge' as in their day they were good performing 250's when compared with the 1/4 litre offerings from the likes of the BSA C11G. But you are right in so much as youngsters are not buying Greeves road bikes. From the East Coaster register alone almost all the new owners when bikes are sold are 'old farts'. I am sure this is the same for other types & indeed trials bikes.
I recall a tale of a certain 25DC Sports Twin that on its owners death passed to his son, the son was most disappointment to find that the Greeves struggled to do 70 mph, saying b****y thing is no use to me, & promptly sold the bike.
I don't think this is confined to Greeves though, its all makes of road bike & eventually comp bikes, most youngsters want to emulate stars of today not stars of the passed, & with spares becoming harder & expensive to buy the scramblers like the roadsters will also be consigned to museums.
The club will need to change its name to the GOA (Greeves OWNERS Association) or maybe GOFA (Greeves Old Farts Association)

[dave higgins]

If you are going to start agreeing with me...i`ll get my sheepskin coat.... (tm cbro)

[Guest]

With the constant reminders over the last few weeks, that the majority of the gra membership are old, & nearing the end of there time riding motorcycles, its fair to point out that, the future of the club, is going to be more reliant on the competition side of the marque, as by the nature of the sports themselves, the riders tend to be younger & fitter.
I can understand the young lads that joined the pre 65 club & race in the greeves series, helping keep the greeves name at the forefront of scrambling & the same applies to trials & road racing.
But who is going to get excited about inheriting grandads old roadbike....exactly, as has been said on here many times, even in there day, were classed in the grey porridge catagory.
Nice to see a concorse one in a museum, but would a youngster want to ride one? so whats going to become of them.
As has been stated, a short while ago, road bikes are deemed to be more collectable & assume a better resale value than the offroad variant.
If this was true, then its certainly going to change in a few years.
Most people tend to harbour a fondness for the bikes they cut there teeth on, & at some point in there life will return to what they know & feel comfortable with, & as each generation moves on, then the era of there first bikes do too.
Which means that the 60`s generation will probably be the last real custdodians for the greeves road bikes......

It's the old guys who like and actually ride hundreds of Greeves roadsters all year long. We have the time and a few pennies to spend on saving these interesting bikes for the future. We don't ride with GRA events because there aren't any, but go to any weekend VMCC gatherings and you may well see a Greeves. They are never seen outside shows because The Club doesn't actually do anything for us. It's not all about off road stuff. Off roaders may numerically be in the majority but the road bikes are certainly well regarded by road riders of all types of bikes. I suggest that before ypou start knocking the Rpoad Bikes you actually DO something so that we can enjoy similar facilities to the off road guys who dominate everything.
Most people just like bikes mate. The 60's and even the 70's generation often ride Greeves because they are interesting, fun and most of all .. light and easy to ride. The membership is indeed old. Mostly retired with the time to enjoy rebuilding bikes and having a bit of fun.
I'm 75 and enjoying my return to Greeves. I have an equal right to expect some help and action from the club.
Are the committee actually interested in Road Bikes. I would be interested in your collective reply.
The GRA was born with ALL bikes in mind.
Come on lads, it's NOT all about comp bikes, or wasn't!!!!!

[dave higgins]

Just to point out keith, that the gra do not hold any events at all, except possibly a few trials a year, the greeves series is a entirely separate series, run by dave harper.
So the road bikers arn`t being left out, its just that there is no special event/events to bring them together, & the gist of the thread was, that once all the old boys have stopped riding, there really is going to be no new youngsters, to take on the bikes.
As long as independants keep running classic events, then there is always room for a greeves, but if you don`t help yourself, then all the rallies etc that could have been...well its just not gonna go on is it?

[aa will]

i have just sorted out my bikes for the next few years , my l/w panther solo has now been converted to a hill climb special so i have decided to get another road l/weight, it will have to be a greeves 250, so in the new year i will be looking for one either complete or in bits,i do the scrutineering at north weald airfield ,we run 5 events each year and i usually have a ride after the work is done . so i have decided to build a greeves sprinter for next year, i know there have been a couple in the past so any info would be great and again in the new year i will be looking for the basis which i think would be a scrambler as a silverstone will probably be outside my budget,if i cant sort that out i do have the remains of an aermacchi 250 stored in one of my sheds but with a greeves solo road bike a greeves scottish trials outfit i think a greeves sprint bike would make a nice set ..will.

[Brian Thompson]

More roadster input.....

The Club doesn't actually do anything for us. I suggest that before ypou start knocking the Rpoad Bikes you actually DO something so that we can enjoy similar facilities to the off road guys who dominate everthing.

Keith, when you say 'the club' do you mean the small band of dedicated and hard working enthusiasts who form the committee and look after the club on everyone's behalf, or the 650 odd current membership....?

When you say that 'the club' doesn't do anything for roadster members, once again, do you mean the committee or the members who are interested in Greeves road models....?

Who exactly is it you are asking to sort things out for you....?

I don't often see eye to eye with John Wakefield, but I will say this....He has almost single-handedly 'flown the flag' for the road bike riding/restoring/owning members on this forum (and via other means), helping many with their queries. He is not alone, sure, and certain other members also provide excellent roadster input as well, but I think it's fair to say that he has tried harder than most to meet this need on here. How come more roadster members don't come forward to help then? Or are they waiting for 'the club' to do it for them perhaps....?

The club does nothing for you roadster inclined members?.....absolute rubbish.

You ARE the club...!!!!! (along with the comp lads and everyone else with a passion for Greeves...!) For years the pleas have gone out for more roadster related material and input from members, only to draw a blank....So don't tell me it's the club's fault Keith. I don't buy it at all. More roadster material/input would be welcomed with open arms by ALL members I'm sure. You make it sound like a deliberate policy of the GRA to focus on competiton topics.....when it most certainly is not. My interest in Greeves is just that...GREEVES. That includes anything and everything involved, and I'll bet that's true of many others too.

So, look forward to reading your first thread about the development of the road bikes, along with the others that some of us worked hard to research and type up for posting on here....for the benefit of ANYONE interested in the road models....

Brian.

[dave higgins]

Absolutely agree with all you have said brian, especially john wakefields input into the roadster side...

[Gr11mpy]

Back to Dave's original post.
Before we get too depressed about the future of our marque both on and off road we need to understand factually our demographic. What is the average age of the GRA membership or Greeves riders full stop and when on average do they lose interest in their bikes if at all?
Let's not get too worked up or worried about something that may not happen for many years to come if at all. I know a 91 year old still building, restoring and riding bikes. Hope for all of us don't you think?
Oh and if it's got two wheels I'll ride it whatever it is........

[John Wakefield]

The problem is much more widespread than the GRA, ALL clubs are suffering from the same problems, even the VMCC, but they like the major make clubs BSA, Triumph, AJS & Matchless etc will survive longer due to the shear volume of those makes & the interest in them. But in the end they will suffer from lack of members as the 'old boys' die off, a fact of life.
One thing that is not helping the motor cycle movement is the Government hurdles put in the way of new riders, the test is getting harder, more involved, & expensive, in fact its almost as involved as a HGV or PCV test.
Youngsters are now only interested in bikes (or should I say twist & go 50cc scooters) to get them mobile for a couple of years until they (or mum & dad) buy them a car. Bikes are not cool anymore & very few go on to become real motorcycle enthusiasts & if they do its the modern bikes that they are interested in, or the now 'emerging' Jap classics.
Furthermore the Government positively discourages motor cycles, classing them as a dangerous form of transport. Whenever there are 'tests' in the local press to find the quickest commute from A to B its always between a Car, Bus & Push Bike. Motorcycles/Scooters are never included. In Cambridge the local council have gone push bike mad, making roads & junctions 'push bike friendly' at the expense of creating serious traffic congestion & grid locks for motorised transport.
Another factor is how much longer are we going to be allowed to ride 'old bikes (and other old vehicles) on the roads, OK the goverment seem to have been helpful so far in giving free road fund licence, & for pre 1960 vehicles no MoT. But being cynical I suspect that at some point laws will be changed to either outlaw vehicles after a certain age, or at the best restrict their use to attending rallies etc with a very small mileage allowance.
So in conclusion I think in the end all 'old bikes' will be consigned to museum pieces & collectors items.

[Guest]

An honest reply.

Thanks for your reply Brian, an honest view and appreciated.
Now, I'm no amateur, having started, along with Pete Smith, the GRA, way back in 1983, I have a big experience of how it all worked then and should be now.

I appreciate that there are several hard working guys, JW is the busiest and his lone input regarding Roadsters is appreciated by everyone. But he's almost all you have!

You are basically a social club based on an appreciation of Greeves bikes, and that is what it is about. Running a club involves a considerable amount of work. Things like helping to set up local groups and finding ways that members can locate local friends.. Ok it's not a dating club but the organisers have a responsibility to get it all together and be the guides and advisors for the membership. If you run a club then you will be expected to be creative and help create a club that is good for all.

Back in the old days Peter and I did t ALL. We helped to organise parts, advice, spares, rallies and trials. Also big meetings at widely spread bike rallies. The input was big and there was only the two of us. Our reward was a rapidly growing club full of friendly guys who all seemed to be happy together and what we did.
A new member was provided with lots of help, and could find out where to get parts for his bike and easily find mates who could help him It worked but required a big input. Now, you have many more officials but seem to have a polarised output. Don't blame the newsletter editor!! Colin works hard and often can only publish what he is given.

I was looking forward to getting back into the GRA but, frankly, I am disappointed. I encounter hostile excuses and a real lack of action on almost all the questions I have posted except the more social threads. There is very little action on the forum and nothing else is published.

I am amazed that you cannot specify a colour for Greeves bikes. It's a fundamental thing. After ALL these years we still do not know?? Come on, that is almost the first question ant new member will ask. The second question is, where can I find a local rider with a bike like mine? Once again, this cannot be addressed!! Why? It's not rocket science! If the internet is deemed insecure then just do what everybody else does and go back to sensible membership numbers and publish membership lists.

It may be that trials guys can get info and help easier but I don't know. It's all about communications. There seems to be a massive gap in what is published. If you look at the GRA web site front page then you would never know that road bikes existed. The Leading Link is dominated by off road stuff.

You say that the GRA doesn't organise events ... why not??? We did, and there was only two of us, so how come such a bigger club with loads of money doesn't set up a few social events. Er ... A Greeves national rally, a social event with NO racing would be great. We could all actually meet each other and make more friends. Like Battlebridge only more central.
We had a Greeves gathering at a Donington Park classic bike race weekend.

And before anyone starts pontificating about ... why don't YOU do something then ... well I would be delighted to help to help co-ordinate the Road bike side of the club. I believe you need someone to revive the more social side of the club and to help us roadies.

And please, no more stuff about older members. We are not frail old grumpy men but enthusiasts with massive experience of bikes and a real appreciation of the unusual and effective engineering that is Greeves.

Goodness knows if this letter will stir up any interest. I sincerely hope that I get a few positive reactions from like minded members or officials. I'm not here to knock down the house of cards, I'm here to help guys!! I detect that there is a need to look out of the box.

My best regards, as always.

Keith

[dave higgins]

The thread is about retiring riders & who will take on the road bikes after them.

[mayfield]

The shape of things to come.

As co,organiser of the Bristol Show GRA.stand,I make every effort to get a balance of each variation of machines. Roadsters are more difficult to accumulate,but we always manage an equal quota. I ask for more interested roadster owners to offer their machines for the 2016 show,(too late for the next show, details will appear in LL later in 2015) we can then boost their numbers at what is predominantly a road machine show. Please have a natter if you come to the Bristol Show about anything " roadster" perhaps something positive will surface. Les.

[merlin]

What a sad picture you paint John but at least we can enjoy. It was ever thus did we want to ride old pre-war bikes except around fields.

[John Wakefield]

What a sad picture you paint John but at least we can enjoy. It was ever thus did we want to ride old pre-war bikes except around fields.

Fact of life I am afraid Merlin.