Glass fibre petrol tanks and problems with Ethanol in pump fuel.

[greeves246]

i like methanol best

used to go to a massive bike show and speedway bikes in front of me for the parade lap would make you sleepy with the exhaust fumes

the garages are upo set as well there fiber glass tanks are having to be replaced ! becasue of ethanol !

[dave higgins]

I say brian, what a fine looking young filly, reminds me of my old aunt ethel, she used to eat through things she shoudn`t have... dave

[John Wakefield]

A report on Ethanol

(Copied from Real Classics forum)
This report was produced for a Department for Transport project aimed at assessing the impact of bio-ethanol petrol. The future does not look good for old vehicles.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/bioethanol_fuel_study.pdf

[Kim275]

Epoxy resin - A Tip on sorting out a leaky Fiberglass tank

I developed a leak some weeks ago in my Griffon fiberglass tank........when I emptied it it was a mess inside - full of bits of a sealant and loose fiberglass - and leaking in two places.. Definately an ethanol in (BP Ultimate in this case) petrol issue

...........A friend of mine suggested a fix which I tried - and it has worked well. Any body sufferingthe same may want to think about using Epoxy resin to coay the inside of the tank

I cleaned the bits out of the tank and then degreased with acetone.

I Let to dry out for a week....and then mixed up some liquid epoxy resin with its hardner (some old SP Boat building resin I had lying around the garage) - which is pretty runny...approx a small glass full.. and tipped it in the tank - swirling around the whole of the inside to coat the tank.........I gave it a swirl around every 20 mins or so - until resin started to cure.

Leak cured and inside as solid as a rock...hopefully the epoxy treatment will breath a lot of life back into the old tank. I used about £10 worth of epoxy - but a lot cheaper than a new tank!
Cheers Kim
p.s make sure that the fuel tap hole is temporarily plugged - so you don't seal it for good with epoxy !!

[John Wakefield]

Glassfibre tank sealing/repairs

I understand Roger Ennis (01594 562361) can also do sealing & any other repairs that need doing, that will be ethanol proof. Roger is one of the GRA parts specialists and can also manufacuture new fibreglass tanks & components, for most Greeves models.

[Andy Z]

I understand Roger Ennis (01594 562361) can also do sealing & any other repairs that need doing, that will be ethanol proof. Roger is one of the GRA parts specialists and can also manufacuture new fibreglass tanks & components, for most Greeves models.

Roger's tanks are brilliant, and ethanol proof as far as I can tell so far. They are a bargain too, nearly a third of the price of one of those Holtworks Hawkstone tanks!

I have no connection with Mr Ennis's business, just a satisfied customer.

Cheers,
Andrew
#190

[156trials]

Novalac epoxy is highly resistant to Efuels, and if the interior surface of a GRP tank is properly prepared, sealing with a modified Novalac epoxy will extend the life of the tank considerably. However epoxy resins without binding agents added are very brittle, and over a period of time when applied to the inside of a GRP tank are likely to crack.

Pretty easy to add some chopped GRP fibres to the epoxy though, which will make it far more durable and much less likely to crack. Depending on the viscosity of the epoxy it may need to be thinned to help with application after the binder has been added.

In terms of fuel proof GRP tanks it would perhaps increase the confidence of customers, if a 2 year written guarantee covering any problems with Efuels were to be provided with every tank sold?

[John Wakefield]

I understand Roger Ennis (01594 562361) can also do sealing & any other repairs that need doing, that will be ethanol proof. Roger is one of the GRA parts specialists and can also manufacuture new fibreglass tanks & components, for most Greeves models.

Further to above I understand that Roger only has moulds for the comp bikes, not for roadsters (Essex & DCX)

[John Wakefield]

Crank seals/ethanol

Following telephone conversations with a couple of GRA members regarding two stoke engine crankshaft oil seals, & possible failure due to the ethanol content in petrol, I emailed Dave Angel of F2 Motorcycles (Dave is the importer of the 350cc Jawa machines, the only two stroke twin still available new, & an old design close to that of the Villiers 2, 3 & 4T twins) to ask if he had experianced any problems with the Jawa crank seals. Here is his reply:

Hi John,
I said I would let you know if I got any useful feedback form the Jawa factory.
They said that they have had no problems with this fuel and they have been selling these bikes for many years in countries that use ethanol containing fuels.
(I guess they mean south America, as I know they sell a lot there and I know they use high ethanol ratios.)
Many Thanks,
David Angel
F2 Motorcycles Ltd
Unit 6, Burgess Farm,
Middleton Cheney,
Banbury, OX17 2NE,
01295 712900
http://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk

[Marc SoCal]

We have had this problem for years in the state of California. Years ago the state added Gasohol to fuel our cars and trucks.

I use leaded 112 octane race gas in all my Greeves with glass fiber tanks, not only does it eliminate or at least slow down the resin break down, but the engines run cooler with no detonating problems, jetting is more consistent and plug readings as well.

I built an MX3 for pre-65 races and the owner used pump gas, the bike stopped running with the bowl being filled with a gooey substance, the pilot jet being plugged and as you would expect, the motor would not re-fire.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Kenny Sykes
USA

I'm a new Greeves owner (380 Griffon). Three of us bought them within a year and so far one new-old-stock fiberglass tank has been ruined. We knew about ethanol here in wacky-enviro California, so we thought using Caswell tank sealer (advertised as 100% guaranteed against ethanol problems) would solve the problem. The stuff is a ripoff. The thank blistered and rippled. Horrible to see. We are stuck with E-10 here (10% ethanol) and will be hit with E15 as of 2012.

Short story is that for now we are going to use VP race gas.($10/gallon!!!) Or, we will use E10 pump gas and drain the the tank completely, then flush with water after each ride. I have heard from others that the E-10 gas begins eating the resin within 30 minutes. How was this quantified..the guy I met noticed the cut edges of the tank going soft before he even started the ride. Crazy.

---Someone---out there could make a nice living making aluminum tanks for these bikes....hmmmm

[Marc SoCal]

Novalac epoxy is highly resistant to Efuels, and if the interior surface of a GRP tank is properly prepared, sealing with a modified Novalac epoxy will extend the life of the tank considerably. However epoxy resins without binding agents added are very brittle, and over a period of time when applied to the inside of a GRP tank are likely to crack.

Pretty easy to add some chopped GRP fibres to the epoxy though, which will make it far more durable and much less likely to crack. Depending on the viscosity of the epoxy it may need to be thinned to help with application after the binder has been added.

In terms of fuel proof GRP tanks it would perhaps increase the confidence of customers, if a 2 year written guarantee covering any problems with Efuels were to be provided with every tank sold?

I would view this approach with extreme skepticism. I just used Caswell epoxy novolac with horrific results. We followed the prep instructions to the letter. I wish I could post a photo of the new old stock tank turned into a bumpy, blistered mess. Until someone makes a metal tank, race gas is the best bet, IMO.

[Brian Catt]

"Race gas" as you call it is available over here, but only in a very limited number of outlets, such as Racing circuits. It can cost up to £5 per litre....I'll leave you to convert that.

[Brian Catt]

See my post in the other thread, we are paying about $10 per gallon anyway!

[Marc SoCal]

Like this you mean...??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Greeves-QUB-Alloy-Fuel-Petrol-Tank-/220857469067?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item336c21888b#ht_539wt_1239

I'd send one of your existing tanks over to Karl Landrus (http://www.klpracing.com/id3.html), he's very good and would probably knock one out for half the price of what it would cost to get a UK supplied one to your door....

aaackk!...that's like $800 bucks...But I'm looking for the Griffon MX tank..the small, squarish one you always see.

[Marc SoCal]

"Race gas" as you call it is available over here, but only in a very limited number of outlets, such as Racing circuits. It can cost up to £5 per litre....I'll leave you to convert that.

ugh....yeah, I get that, Brian.......seems more and more like metal tanks are the only recourse. We pay about $10 per GALLON over here, and even that chaps my hide...sheesh, I couldn't imagine paying triple or more.