New Greeves progress in 2011 SSDT?

[Brian Catt]

RD was seen on TV during a news bulletin about an Essex grant scheme for small businesses. I didn't see all of it, so can't quote specifics, but got the gist of it.

[John Wakefield]

Quite right on the finances Brian............it might have been a better idea to concentrate on a modern day version of an original Greeves model, along similar lines to the new DOT?

I assume you mean this DOT http://www.rockshocks.co.uk/gallery/
I wonder how many of these they have actually been built only seven according to the web site, with two customers! Surely not enough offset the costs involved, & looks like they are being built in someones garage.
Anyway are these bikes actually eligable for pre 65 trials, they are far removed from the original DOT which had leading link forks. Is not someone doing the same thing with the James?
This is what the original DOT looked like http://virtuoso.chez-alice.fr/Bikes/...lsStanding.JPG

[156trials]

The new type DOT's are perfectly ok to use in the P65 Scottish, so I guess that makes them acceptable pretty much anywhere?

As to customers for the bikes I think its pretty likely John Bull can sell as many as he is able to make, as demand for ready built competitive P65's seems very strong at the moment.

[John Wakefield]

According to this web page http://www.r2wtrials.co.uk/html_files/DOT.html
only 25 are to be built. I notice the registration number on one (presumably John Bulls own bike) has a B suffix (1964) registration, DPF 675B which according to DVLA web site was first registered 10/7/64!!!

[156trials]

The new type DOT's have chrom-moly frames with modern geometry, and use wheels and forks from various twin-shock bikes.

These bikes dont seem to me to resemble the originals at all really, but then again that doesnt seem to have stopped them getting accepted in Scotland, which seems to be the main deciding factor as to whether or not a bike is "P65" or not.

I wasnt aware that John was only aiming to build 25, but even so thats quite a lot of bikes when you are paying for everything yourself.

[John Wakefield]

If the Rock Shock DOT's are being registered as pre 65 bikes (as is the case with DPF 675B), with new frames presumably stamped with the number of a genuine 1964 bike, this is cloning, & is illegal full stop. Not only that but an original pre 65 bike has been destroyed in the process. I blame the sports governing bodies (ACU & AMCA) for letting this happen. If all bikes had to conform to orginal spec. frames, engines, wheels etc there would be a level playing field and the ability of the rider would still be what counts.
There always, even at club level, has to be those pot hunters who will win at all costs. Sorry if this offends a few people, but thats how it is. Rant over.

[dave higgins]

John, i`d never thought i`d say this but your last post was spot on, the rehashed dot should never be pre 65 eligable because its built with parts & products not available in 1965.
I can`t comment on the legality of it & to be honest i don`t care, this is the gra, not the dot appreciation society, to echo your earlier post john, seven built & only two sold!!!!!!......... hardly setting the world alight is it.
At least rd`s anglians were much closer to origanal spec. dave

[Brian Catt]

One thing not noted on here has been the low number of Greeves in the Pre-65 Trial, presumably because you can't easily cut and shut the frame to steepen the head angle.

[156trials]

How many "P65" bikes that were even remotely original finished in the top 10 in this years "P65" Scottish I wonder? There is certainly good reason to define what is and what isnt an authentic "P65" bike, but who is going to want to become involved with actually enforcing the rules required?

The situation in Scotland at the moment seems to be that you can ride pretty much anything you want (inc 1970s Spanish twin-shocks!), and a £10k modern Brit twin-shock special is actually "P65", as long as it isnt visibly fitted with a Japanese carb (most of the top riders have Jap internals fitted into Brit carb bodies though!).

As to only 2 bikes sold I am not completely sure thats accurate, as they seem very popular, and I know of at least 4 being ridden on a regular basis.

[John Wakefield]

As to only 2 bikes sold I am not completely sure thats accurate, as they seem very popular, and I know of at least 4 being ridden on a regular basis.

The web site is probabaly out of date, & more have been sold since.
I have no problem with the 'new' P65 bikes but they should be run in a class on their own maybe 'New build P65 twin shocks'. If people want to spend their money on these all so well & good, but dont compete against originals. It does though suggest that with the advent of the lightweight trick bikes, club riders are wanting something less exotic to ride in old traditional style longer distance trials. These new builds should though if road registered be licenced as new bikes & not cloned to old pre 65 frames. This could result in the DVLA tightening the legislation for 'Historic (free) tax' on pre 1972 registered vehicles.

[156trials]

The web site is probabaly out of date, & more have been sold since.
I have no problem with the 'new' P65 bikes but they should be run in a class on their own maybe 'New build P65 twin shocks'. If people want to spend their money on these all so well & good, but dont compete against originals. It does though suggest that with the advent of the lightweight trick bikes, club riders are wanting something less exotic to ride in old traditional style longer distance trials. These new builds should though if road registered be licenced as new bikes & not cloned to old pre 65 frames. This could result in the DVLA tightening the legislation for 'Historic (free) tax' on pre 1972 registered vehicles.

I would agree 100%..................the unfortunate knock on effect of the Brit twin-shocks though, is events being set out for those riding these bikes, which often makes the going difficult/impossible for riders of more authentic machinery!

Sadly though the rubber stamping of the new generation Brit twin-shocks as being authentic "P65" machines, by allowing them to be ridden in Scotland, does seem to suggest that changing the current situation would be an uphill struggle to say the least!