Gumph's MOT

[tony]

My TFS 1965 based grumph has a 1971Triumph T100C Engine, was last taxed in 1989 with a 199cc engine. The bike is over 40 years old however it is a bit of a minefield on what is counted as substantial change.
What does ‘substantially changed’ mean?

(https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...mean-to-bikers)

If you have a ‘vehicle of historic interest’ (one that’s over 40 years old) that hasn’t been substantially changed, it won’t need an MoT. The rules are clear regarding chassis, axles/running gear and engine for cars and vans, but on motorcycles the legislation is simply that a bike will be considered ‘substantially changed’ if it’s been issued with a Q plate, or is a ‘kit’ assembled from components from different makes and models of vehicle, or is a reconstructed classic as defined by DVLA guidance, or is a ‘kit conversion’ – where a kit of new parts are added to an existing vehicle, or old parts are added to a kit of a manufactured chassis, changing the general appearance.

Keep in mind that at the time of writing in early 2018, the government states that ‘further arrangements for motorcycles may be introduced, including if core testing standards are considered further internationally.’

So one would assume that it does not need an MOT until they re consider the criteria for motorbikes?


Probably easier just to get an MOT

[Brian Catt]

Very interesting! Obviously the wording doesn't really cover the case, but I wonder if the case may be put that Greeves chassis were used for engine transplants from way back in the history of the marque. So what you have done has historical precedence dating back over 40 years.

[John Wakefield]

As the bike was in existence as a Tri Greeves since before the 40 year MoT exemption & has not been further modified since then I would not think it would need an MoT which would only apply to a bike so modified after that date. But as Brian has said probably a good idea to get an MoT on it for one more year, Many owners for piece of mind.

[Colin Sparrow]

If it still has the 199cc engine (Tiger Cub?) on the V5C, you need to notify the DVLA of an engine change, simply telling them the new engine number and engine capacity. However it will continue to require an MoT because that change (number of cylinders and different capacity) is regarded as "substantially changed".

If it has the 500cc engine on the V5C and the change was made more than 30 years ago it will not need an MoT.

Check the notes on the reverse side of the V112 declaration form. It makes it quite clear.

[IanCordes]

1989 is 30 years ago, not 40. What was the 199 engine that was fitted in 1989? Didn't you have the 500 engine fitted, Tony, and if so, when, and did you register the engine change? What is the capacity as shown on the reg doc? What is it registered as? What is the date of manufacture as shown on the doc? Is this the first time it is being taxed since 1989? Lots of questions, lots of grey areas. It is a minefield, for sure, but all of these points would be examined if it came into question by the DVLA, I have no doubt.

Colin's and my post crossed in the ether....

[tony]

No record of what engine was fitted in 1989, apart from 199 on the tax disc. I registered it at the Exeter DVLA around 2011/2012 and said it had a 490cc engine, which the young lady duly recorded. On the V5 it is recorded as Greeves Historic 490cc.

[IanCordes]

You may be safest getting an MoT! It looks as though it hinges on Colin's comment that, if it is registered as a 500cc, and the change was made more that 30 years ago, you don't need one.

[Dogsbody]

Even with Historic status there seem to be two reasons to have an MOT. A dealer on another forum had an insurance company ask if there was any proof that an old bike involved in a minor accident was roadworthy. The second is that it is a record of mileage covered if there is mileage limit on the insurance and it was stolen. At a cost of fifty pence a week it doesn't seem worth the hassle in either case. Dogsbody

[timk]

My Trigrumph is 1958 the engine is dated by VMCC as 1958 I have had the machine for 30 odd years but only changed the engine number last year the MOT and DVLA have separate aims I think I shall get an MOT and apply for historic status and try on line without MOT the following year
Incidentally three of my motorcycles have no speedometer since they are from before the mandatory speedometer rule was introduced (1936?) if I am in a situation where I worry about speed I can hear my mobile phone GPS from my pocket beeping 'over the limit' but generally I judge speed and most villages conveniently have started to put up signs to reinforce my judgment, The bikes have a 1000 mile insurance limitand one is a 1935 KSS Velo which is easily capable of exceeding that figure. not sure how that would be policed

[tony]

Quick ride out on the Grumph to check everything before the MOT this week, everything okay part from the weather

[John Wakefield]

Does not need an MoT Tony as kits over 40 years old.

[46T Sprocket]

Quick ride out on the Grumph to check everything before the MOT this week, everything okay part from the weather

As John said Tony. No MOT needed. See this topic.

https://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/forums/forum/gra-members-area/help-advice/74095-historic-motorcycle-mot-and-tax-exempt-query

[tony]

The kit might be over 40 years old however the conversion was more recent therefore substantial change took place (not like for like engine)within 30 years.

[46T Sprocket]

Yes of course I hadn't taken account of the recent change of engine. By the look of it, It will sail through the test.

[John Wakefield]

This is the DVSA ruling on MoT Exemptions https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ptable-changes
Looks like a grey area as they state under Substantial change criteria - Main vehicle components that Motorcycles are excluded.