Lights on ISDT bikes

[John Wakefield]

Were lights required to be fitted to bikes in all ISDT 's? Looking at some pics Mary Driver does not appear to have a headlight on her Anglian SOO56D that she rode in the 1968 ISDT, and if you look at page 79 of the Carrick & Walker book, you will see in the line-up of the Vase-A team with no lights. I have the programme for the 1975 ISDT in IoM and non working lights at final examination resulted in 10 penalty points

[Brian Catt]

YES! A fair number of machines pivoted the trial number plate to cover the front lamp to protect it. The light had to be there and it had to work, but nothing said it must be seen at all times. One of my 1970 ISDT photos shows most of the Trophy team, on their Cheney Triumphs, checking before the final check. Other people fitted sponge covers.

[John Wakefield]

As I thought Brian, of course we dont know when the pic of Mary was taken, possibly prior to the ISDT and light could be as you say behind number plate. The teams usually took part in the Welsh 2 Day prior to the ISDT itself, lights were not mandatory in the Welsh so may not have been fitted for that event.

[PeterJGreig]

My 6day bike was road tested by Dave Minton for one of the bike mags at the time with the comment that the headlight would not illuminate the front mudguard- as it has no lighting coil where did the power come from? I use LED bulbs running off a small battery in the tank bag.

[John Wakefield]

My 6day bike was road tested by Dave Minton for one of the bike mags at the time with the comment that the headlight would not illuminate the front mudguard- as it has no lighting coil where did the power come from? I use LED bulbs running off a small battery in the tank bag.

How did Dave Minton know it had no lighting coil fitted without dismantling the engine? it would have had working lights when built, no LED's back then, I suppose the lights could have been powerd by a battery, as they only needed to work for scrutineering , but that would have added weight to the bike. Maybe John Collard can enlighten us.

[PeterJGreig]

Dave Minton may not have known about the coils but I do, it has the original ignition system, with the painted number still on it.

[John Wakefield]

Dave Minton may not have known about the coils but I do, it has the original ignition system, with the painted number still on it.

Looks as though then a small battery, and lights only had small wattage bulbs, they only needed to just glow, intensity or beam aim would not be measured. The Challenger scrambler did not have a lighting coil so presumably no provision to fit one. The later Griffon Enduro's did have lighting coils, as did the Pathfinder Enduro.

[John Pattinson]

7LHK had working direct lights. That frame for number swivelled up for the headlight .

[IanCordes]

[ATTACH=JSON][][/ATTACH] Yes, the early ones certainly did, John. This is the pivoting front number board frame arrangement on 4LHK. Later machines, from 1966-'69, often appeared in photos not to have lights, or at least front lights. See this Comerfords Challenger-based ISDT model from 1968 Only by zooming in very closely can the headlight be spotted. One suspects the answer is that from 1966 much smaller headlights were used, requiring less elaborate pivoting number board frames, reducing bulk, weight and vulnerability to accidental damage. Here is Mary Driver's ISDT Challenger, DOO 94B, from 1964, by comparison.

[IanCordes]

Try again! This is 4LHK with the headlight and pivoting numberboard frame....

[Lawrence Hampton]

Were lights required to be fitted to bikes in all ISDT 's? Looking at some pics Mary Driver does not appear to have a headlight on her Anglian SOO56D that she rode in the 1968 ISDT, and if you look at page 79 of the Carrick & Walker book, you will see in the line-up of the Vase-A team with no lights. I have the programme for the 1975 ISDT in IoM and non working lights at final examination resulted in 10 penalty points

John I have the original photos of SOO56D in the Commerfords preparation workshop with Bill Brooker, Mary Driver and Eddie Dow, 'No lights fitted'. Some of the other machines in the 1968 ISDT San Pelegrino also did not have lights fitted.

Brian Catt may well be an 'expert' on all things ISDT, however I have spoken to Mary Driver at length and the bike you see her riding/stting on was as in the ISDT. I am not disputing the rules and regs of the ISDT I am only passing on the information I gained from her and Bill Brooker.
If you type in at the 'Google' prompt SOO56D most pictures of the machine will appear.

[John Wakefield]

Sorry to disagree but as Brian Catt confirms (and ISDT is his specialist subject) the ISDT did require lights. Presumably SOO56D had them fitted after the pics were taken (Can you post them on here so we can see them) As for other bikes in the 1968 San Pelegrino ISDT there would be smaller headlamps obscured by pivoting number plates, these would have protected lamps from damage but could be pivoted up to check lights worked on final scrutineering. If you look at this link https://speedtracktales.com/index-of...dt-1968-italy/ you will see most of the bikes have lights in the Pelegrino event they would not have them if not required, sadly many of the pics are now missing from the Speed Track Tales web site

[IanCordes]

Here is Mary with SOO 56D. Not a good quality picture, but I can see the tail light, and the headlight hiding behind the number board, in much the same way as the Comerfords Challenger, a photo of which I posted earlier. The number board would pivot on it's mounting brackets to sit above the headlight when required.

[John Wakefield]

John I have the original photos of SOO56D in the Commerfords preparation workshop with Bill Brooker, Mary Driver and Eddie Dow, 'No lights fitted'. Some of the other machines in the 1968 ISDT San Pelegrino also did not have lights fitted.

Brian Catt may well be an 'expert' on all things ISDT, however I have spoken to Mary Driver at length and the bike you see her riding/stting on was as in the ISDT. I am not disputing the rules and regs of the ISDT I am only passing on the information I gained from her and Bill Brooker.
If you type in at the 'Google' prompt SOO56D most pictures of the machine will appear.

Only two pics of SOO56D with Mary appear on Google, the one I posted with her sitting on the bike and the other riding it. No pics of it in the Commerfords workshop, I and I am sure other members would like to see them.

[Lawrence Hampton]

Only two pics of SOO56D with Mary appear on Google, the one I posted with her sitting on the bike and the other riding it. No pics of it in the Commerfords workshop, I and I am sure other members would like to see them.

The photos/pictures I have are of poor quality but I will post them.