Info wanted 1965 IoM ISDT

[pgc40]

Does any one have a programme for the above event or any photos of the Greeves ISDT that they would like to share? Attached are some of the photos I have already found.

Thanks,

Paul

[Brian Catt]

Your first pic is of Jan van der Hoek who, as can be seen in the pic is "exhausted"! He broke his primary chain several miles from Douglas and was destined to retire, but for the actions of his teammates who rode past him and organised a bike to tow him into the Douglas area. He pushed the bike the rest of the way, managed to repair it and rode the rest of the event to win a Bronze Medal. I'll cull some more info from my ISDT story for you and put it in when I have a bit more time!

[pgc40]

Oh dear what can the matter be....

I thought I would share some info on Greeves and the 1965 ISDT mishaps that was published in the December issue of the Cycle World report (bearing in mind its from an American perspective).

Greeves rider Lloyd Lingelbach 'had to play second fiddle to a flu bug' and unfortunately was not able to compete in the event

On the first day Dave Deyo (typo - should be Dale not Dave as printed) on a Greeves 246cc 'had lost one mark for clocking in one second late because an official had caused Dave to stop in his hectic dash for the clock. Dave wisely put the wheels of protest in motion and subsequently regained a clean sheet.' The time check point that he was stopped at by the official was later scrubbed from the ISDT results by the international jury

Day two and Max Switzer 'drowned his Greeves at Cornaa river crossing and was busy drying it out when Ted Wassell, managing one of the Yankee Vase teams, urged him to push his Greeves into the control point four hundred yards away to clock in and retain his clean sheet.'

At the end of the third day, Mary Driver retired (Greeves). She got bogged down on the moors and it took a couple of days later to retrieve her machine out of the mud Dale Deyo was also out because of an engine mount failure and Max Switzers Greeves Challenger blew up on him The rest of the American team went out on time.

On day four Bryan Sharp had crashed his Greeves and had retired. The fifth day saw British Trophy teamster Triss Sharp on his Greeves 'feeling the effects of riding without goggles, decided to stay in bed rather than face another day. Not content with just dropping out, he made statements to the press severely criticizing the team management and the lack of assistance to riders. Greeves rapidly sacked both Triss and his brother Bryan who associated himself with the remarks; most people considered them to be well founded.'

The article goes on to say 'The attitude had even rubbed off onto spectators by Friday for when asked where they were going on that day one group said "shopping" Lol

Thirty one Greeves entered the Isle of Man ISDT that year but none of the Greeves machines or Greeves riders finished

Paul

[John Wakefield]

1975 IoM ISDT

http://woodsrat.com/1975-isdt-isle-of-man-video-1-of-2/

(Click on pic to see video)
Interesting film of the 1975 ISDT in IoM. The Penton machines did well but never seemed to have sold over here in the UK

[John Wakefield]

Film of 1965 IoM ISDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5KhFlGlJZc&feature=related

[Brian Catt]

See my earlier post re: the Bronze medal for the Dutchman. Pentons were not sold here because they were KTMs painted differently, and the importer saw no reason for complicating the scene.
The story of the Sharp brothers was somewhat "simplified". It was a combination of factors that caused both crash and retirement. Lack of support at checks was one of the reasons I got interested in the ISDT, but one of the problems stemmed from the GRP front mudguards. While undamaged, they were fine, but when damaged, the riders had to rip them away, rather than bending them back as they could on the subsequent models fitted with alloy components. This meant they were riding in a constant spray of muck, causing, I believe, Triss to suffer from eye problems.
I have just watched the 2 parts of the 75 and the 3 parts of the 65 films. Saw some old pals there. IoM took no prisoners!

[pgc40]

Thanks for the links to the videos John. Very interesting to watch. It also shows the terrible riding conditions that you describe Brian and I did not know that Jan van der Hoek finished the event on a Greeves to win Bronze. I should have said that none of the Greeves mounted Americans finished the ISDT event for one reason or another. Sorry for any confusion.

Paul

[Brian Catt]

Every story I have read concentrates on it's own countrymen, but gets thin on the others! We used to get the day maps for the ISDT and look for the class 4 terrain, to go there to help our guys through the worst bits. The IoM was just about all Class 4! This was detrimental to our own guys, being on big 4 strokes, as opposed to the MZs and Jawas etc. One of the things to remember is that, certainly in 65, they were on Trials tyres, not Enduro pattern.

[Colin Sparrow]

Every story I have read concentrates on it's own countrymen, but gets thin on the others! We used to get the day maps for the ISDT and look for the class 4 terrain, to go there to help our guys through the worst bits. The IoM was just about all Class 4! This was detrimental to our own guys, being on big 4 strokes, as opposed to the MZs and Jawas etc. One of the things to remember is that, certainly in 65, they were on Trials tyres, not Enduro pattern.

Brian, did you clock my PM about the 1961 ISDT..?

[Bearingman]

I thought I would share some info on Greeves and the 1965 ISDT mishaps that was published in the December issue of the Cycle World report (bearing in mind its from an American perspective).

Greeves rider Lloyd Lingelbach 'had to play second fiddle to a flu bug' and unfortunately was not able to compete in the event

On the first day Dave Deyo (typo - should be Dale not Dave as printed) on a Greeves 246cc 'had lost one mark for clocking in one second late because an official had caused Dave to stop in his hectic dash for the clock. Dave wisely put the wheels of protest in motion and subsequently regained a clean sheet.' The time check point that he was stopped at by the official was later scrubbed from the ISDT results by the international jury

Day two and Max Switzer 'drowned his Greeves at Cornaa river crossing and was busy drying it out when Ted Wassell, managing one of the Yankee Vase teams, urged him to push his Greeves into the control point four hundred yards away to clock in and retain his clean sheet.'

At the end of the third day, Mary Driver retired (Greeves). She got bogged down on the moors and it took a couple of days later to retrieve her machine out of the mud Dale Deyo was also out because of an engine mount failure and Max Switzers Greeves Challenger blew up on him The rest of the American team went out on time.

On day four Bryan Sharp had crashed his Greeves and had retired. The fifth day saw British Trophy teamster Triss Sharp on his Greeves 'feeling the effects of riding without goggles, decided to stay in bed rather than face another day. Not content with just dropping out, he made statements to the press severely criticizing the team management and the lack of assistance to riders. Greeves rapidly sacked both Triss and his brother Bryan who associated himself with the remarks; most people considered them to be well founded.'

The article goes on to say 'The attitude had even rubbed off onto spectators by Friday for when asked where they were going on that day one group said "shopping" Lol

Thirty one Greeves entered the Isle of Man ISDT that year but none of the Greeves machines or Greeves riders finished

Paul

Hi Paul,

I believe Nick retired on points...same with Brian Slark.

If I recalled Brian told me he retired because he could no longer open his eyes from the mud. Not sure what happen to Nick. He did tell me conditions were horrible many years ago...I just can't recall any specifics.

Most of the team ended up back at the house were they were staying...after visiting the local pub according to my mother in law Alice N.

Kenny Sykes

[Brian Catt]

Colin, PM sent.

[Colin Sparrow]

Colin, PM sent.

Thanks Brian, that's great.

[pgc40]

Hi Paul,

I believe Nick retired on points...same with Brian Slark.

If I recalled Brian told me he retired because he could no longer open his eyes from the mud. Not sure what happen to Nick. He did tell me conditions were horrible many years ago...I just can't recall any specifics.

Most of the team ended up back at the house were they were staying...after visiting the local pub according to my mother in law Alice N.

Kenny Sykes

Hi Kenny - thanks for the info. Here is a photo of Nick Nicholson in action at the 1965 ISDT on his Greeves

Paul

[pgc40]

Brian Slark rides Greeves in the 1965 ISDT

Brian Slark has been inducted into the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) Motorcycle Hall of Fame.

The Englishman rode Greeves in the 1965 ISDT alongside the USA team (see photo attached of the American team prior to leaving for the Isle of Man) together with a photo of Brian Slark on his 250cc Greeves Challenger in full ISDT trim.

The full article can be found at this link http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/...l_of_Fame.aspx

Congratulations Brian Slark

[pgc40]

More photos from the 1965 ISDT Part 1

I thought that I would post some more photos of the event in the Isle of Man from the GRA archive.