PathMaker

[IanCordes]

Yeah I know..... but apart from that..... Just testing you John, seeing if you are paying attention

[John Wakefield]

Yeah I know..... but apart from that..... Just testing you John, seeing if you are paying attention

Further more the Bultaco had 18 bhp @ 8000 rpm
The Starmaker with only 1.5 bhp more than the 37A and still only revving to 5500 rpm was too little too late, it needed much more development.

[IanCordes]

I can't think of any trials sections where 8000rpm is going to come in handy. It is more about torque, instant pick-up from low revs and that famous technical term 'plonkability'! Obviously the Bultaco had those characteristics. Somehow the trials version of the Starmaker engine can't have met these criteria, although I have no first-hand experience of it. Maybe an engine developed for racing, and scrambling, didn't translate into trials use.

[John Wakefield]

I can't think of any trials sections where 8000rpm is going to come in handy. It is more about torque, instant pick-up from low revs and that famous technical term 'plonkability'! Obviously the Bultaco had those characteristics. Somehow the trials version of the Starmaker engine can't have met these criteria, although I have no first-hand experience of it. Maybe an engine developed for racing, and scrambling, didn't translate into trials use.

The extra revs came into play in so much as it gave more flexibility in the gears. ie if a section started with some slow naggery stuff but then ended with a steep climb out, the extra revs allowed you to stay in one gear on the climb. With a Villiers peaking at 5000 odd revs there was not enough speed to maintain grip on the climb, & to make things worse they usually 4 stroked if revved hard in a low gear.
This is where the Bultaco gained over Villers & of course with the later 5 speed gearbox things got even better.
I think as you say Ian, the Starmaker was aimed more at Scrambles & Roadracing. But the Bultaco was also good in those fields as well. Villiers should have copied the Bultaco engine.

[scott151]

The extra revs came into play in so much as it gave more flexibility in the gears. ie if a section started with some slow naggery stuff but then ended with a steep climb out, the extra revs allowed you to stay in one gear on the climb. With a Villiers peaking at 5000 odd revs there was not enough speed to maintain grip on the climb, & to make things worse they usually 4 stroked if revved hard in a low gear.
This is where the Bultaco gained over Villers & of course with the later 5 speed gearbox things got even better.
I think as you say Ian, the Starmaker was aimed more at Scrambles & Roadracing. But the Bultaco was also good in those fields as well. Villiers should have copied the Bultaco engine.

Quite agree John.. The modern bantams so popular on here fall into this territory...

Plonk around the sections in 1st on the nadgery stuff, then loads of revs for the climb.... That said a low revving villiers sounds so much more pleasant and will get you up most climbs...

I think a de tuned starmaker could work with time and development.. Modern thinking with exhausts and porting and ignitions would all be contributing factors in making the starmaker trialable..

That said with modern tyres a peaky motor is not such a handicap as it used to be..

Scott

[Colin Sparrow]

This is all starting to say that the Pathfinder with its original Puch engine and six-speed gearbox is actually a very good prospect these days.

Discuss...

[John Wakefield]

This is all starting to say that the Pathfinder with its original Puch engine and six-speed gearbox is actually a very good prospect these days.

Discuss...

Certainly the Starmaker engine would appear to be no improvement over the Puch. If you are going to improve it you are looking at fitting something like a Yamaha TY175 or a RL250 Suzuki engine. One wonders though why no one appears to have fitted a Bultaco or Montesa engine into the Pathfinder frame. Has it been done?

[Phil Hyde]

STARMAKER trials

Onetime Chairman of the GRA, Geoff Weston, campaigned a TES with a trials Starmaker quite successfully in the 90s. As I recall to get the best out of it the timing was critical to such an extent that very occasionally it would run backwards