Strange Forks

[trialrider17]

These forks look a bit strange any ideas?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norman-Greeves-Trials-Motorcycle-/111534478504

[John Pattinson]

Forks

Greeves Forks with non standard damper/spring unit...John p.

[Phil Hyde]

Definitely Greeves in origin. Top and bottom crowns look a bit of a departure from the factory dimensions.

[John Wakefield]

The frame is 1958 onwards Norman B2C/S, the forks are heavily modified Greeves, the fixed link is longer bringing the pivot of the moving link back so that the wheel spindle is in line with the fork tubes, not ahead of it as with Greeves set up. It looks as though only the tubes & moving link are Greeves, the rest is made up. Looks like home made damper units or maybe modified early Francis Barnet rears which could be drained & refilled. Registration WBJ 95M is an East Suffolk mark so bike looks to have originated there. I had an XT500 Yamaha WBJ 227S from Bowers of Bury St Edmunds. Doug Theobald lived near Bury St Edmunds & campaigned various Villiers engined trials bikes, looks the sort of thing he may have built & ridden.


Vehicle enquiry
Registration number: WBJ 95M
Untaxed
Tax due: 01 October 1978
MOT
No details held by DVLA
Vehicle details
12 month rate £38.00
12 monthly by direct debit totalling £38.00
Monthly by direct debit totalling £39.90 (Monthly payment of approximately £3.33)
Vehicle make VTS
Date of first registration 01 June 1974
Cylinder capacity (cc) 250cc
CO₂Emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Export marker No
Vehicle status Not taxed
Vehicle colour GREEN
Vehicle type approval Not available

[Brian Thompson]

Ug, and his bike....

......oh for a time when things were simpler and less complicated......like motorcycle forks.....

Brian The Geek.

[John Wakefield]

Norman Greeves Special

I have been in touch with seller & this is what he knows about the bike.

I have a little documentation including a copy of the registration document from 1983. I purchased the bike in June 2008 from a colleague who purchased it when he lived in Brundish, Woodbridge (postcode IP13). He appears to have Purchased it from the previous keeper is listed as Horst David Baumguertel from Kenton, Stowmarket in 1983 (postcode IP14). He appears to have purchased it in October 1977 . I have an old MOT Dated Sept 1977 from Debenham (postcode IP14). So you appear not to be too far off the mark with Bury St Edmunds. I have no further information or history alas.

I have also spoken to Doug Theobald & it was not his bike & indeed he does not know of it, nor has he heard of Horst Baumguertal (the second owner) so presumably he was not a well known trials rider as Doug knows everyone of note who rode in the Eastern Centre in the 1970's

Update
Have managed to contact Horst Baumguertal & he fairly certain it came from Dave Bickers. This would make sense as he lived at Kenton not far from Coddenham at the time.

This is the bike as bought before recent renovation


This is it in Nov 2014 now has loop welded on forks, pity its been repainted & lost its provenance & original VTS logo on the tank, especially if it does prove to be a Dave Bickers bike.

[gribley]

The bottom of the damper units look like AJS/Matchless "candlestick" dampers

[Colin Sparrow]

Looks like a candidate for next year's LL April fool...

[dave higgins]

Maybe not m, prehaps this thread might have saved it...you never know who`s watching.
Does make you wonder though, how many bikes with a bit of history, have been lost to the breakers, by inocent ignorance or radically modified by over enthusiastic restoration by people who don`t know what they have?

[John Wakefield]

I have spoken to Trevor Harvey who was a good friend of Dave Bickers & he is checking it out with others who knew Dave. It does look as though this was a bike built by Dave out of parts he had lying around. Dave did ride in Eastern Centre trials in winter months so could well have constructed the bike for that purpose, though it does seem a bit late in 1974 to be campaigning a Villiers engine bike when Bultaco's were available. One other pointer to Dave is the large Amal 389 monobloc cab on the engine. Hardly suitable for trials but Dave may have had these lying around & the barrel may be a scrambles one. Not sure if its Greeves Parkison or Marcelle. If it does prove to be a DB bike it puts a different light on the subject. I have removed one thread as I have now included the same info in my main posting with the photos.

[John Wakefield]

I have spoken to Trevor Harvey who was a good friend of Dave Bickers & he is checking it out with others who knew Dave. It does look as though this was a bike built by Dave out of parts he had lying around. Dave did ride in Eastern Centre trials in winter months so could well have constructed the bike for that purpose, though it does seem a bit late in 1974 to be campaigning a Villiers engine bike when Bultaco's were available. One other pointer to Dave is the large Amal 389 monobloc cab on the engine. Hardly suitable for trials but Dave may have had these lying around & the barrel may be a scrambles one. Not sure if its Greeves Parkison or Marcelle. If it does prove to be a DB bike it puts a different light on the subject. I have removed one thread as I have now included the same info in my main posting with the photos.

Have since heard back from Trevor Harvey, he can not as yet come up with any evidence that Dave Bickers built or owned the bike, he put me onto Tony Crouch who was the manager at Dave's shop, Again he could not recall the bike & does not think Dave built it. The only person who may know is Dave's son Paul but he would have been only about 10 years old at the time.
So it remains a mystery bike. Sold for £1600

[John Wakefield]

Being restored

Have heard from new owner Edward Green who lives in Kent, he is going to restore it as it is but back in its original colours. Ed is trying to find out more about the bike, hopefully DVLA will have details of first owner. My detective work drew a blank with the general opinion of those in the Suffolk area that it was NOT built or owned by Dave Bickers. An email to Paul Bickers by the previous owner failed to get a reply.