Brian g brown

[brian g brown]

Hello All,
I am a new member, bought a 1963 250cc TES this year.
This is the Square Alloy Cylinder model. Head started blowing, removed Head to my surprise no Gasket! Made A Gasket, replaced Head, to find thread stripped in Crankcase location for Cylinder Bolts. Bike now away having Helicoil Inserts fitted.
Can anyone tell me the Torque for this Head, as I assume it may differ from the Steel Cylinder?
All advice other than get rid would be wonderfull.
Merry Christmas and regards to all.

B.G.Brown

[johnrunnacles]

I think you'll find the answer to your question in the next category down, *Scrambles machines", Brian.
Also, though I stand to be corrected, I don't think that the square barrels used a head gasket (?)
(Anyone out there know any better, please?)
John R

[Andy Z]

Hello All,
I am a new member, bought a 1963 250cc TES this year.
This is the Square Alloy Cylinder model. Head started blowing, removed Head to my surprise no Gasket! Made A Gasket, replaced Head, to find thread stripped in Crankcase location for Cylinder Bolts. Bike now away having Helicoil Inserts fitted.
Can anyone tell me the Torque for this Head, as I assume it may differ from the Steel Cylinder?
All advice other than get rid would be wonderfull.
Merry Christmas and regards to all.

B.G.Brown

Hi Brian,

Welcome to the forum and to Greeves ownership!

All the scrambles models with the alloy head and barrel don't have a head gasket fitted, not 100% sure about the trials ones.

Torque should be 22 ft.lbs - no more as the threads will strip in the dural bolts or the studs pull out as you have found.

If you have a leak at the sealing face, the surfaces may need cleaning up, they can be lapped with a little grinding paste. I find a tiny smear of high-temp silicone prevents any leaks.

Cheers,
Andrew

[johnrunnacles]

Thanks Andy. Good job you're there. Confirms what I was saying.

Yes, welcome aboard, Brian. Don't scrap it, mate. Stripped threads are pretty much par for the course.

How are things with you, nowadays, Andy? (Looking forward to seeing you out in the Pre 65 Club meetings again, next season, then?)

John R

[Andy Z]

Blimey, yeah if you want to scrap it then throw it in my direction!

John - I will be riding the 360 again next year, so watch out for me at the back! Hope you're keeping well,

Andrew

[Brian Thompson]

Greetings!

Hi (again!) Andy,

Great to see you posting again.....been too long mate.

By the way, there's a new cap comp lurking around on here somewhere....

Hi Brian,

Welcome to the forum, and please don't scrap yer Greeves...! ...stripped threads? As Andy said, 'they all do that sir...!'

If you're a fully paid up GRA member, email Rob and he'll upgrade your forum status so you can get full access to all the other areas on here.

Have fun!

Brian (one of the several.)

[Dick H]

I'm not sure of the theory but I think I'm right in saying that alloy heads on alloy barrels never used gaskets regardless of the marque. Certainly the 16C Ajays I campaigned in the early 60s never used them, just a little light lapping with valve grinding paste.

[Rob]

Hello (New) Brian and welcome to the GRA!

I have upgraded you as you are a club member. The TES parts book does not show a head gasket listed although one did creep in with the next model, the TFS. I have attached the drawing for this. I think these came about because the cylinders were based on the Challenger and maybe it was to take a bit of the edge off it. Anyway, it is called a 'compression plate' in the book so there's a clue.

I have an Anglian as well as a TES and once the Villiers engine is sorted, they are very reliable and great fun to ride. They are also pretty cheap and easy to work on which helps as well.

22 ft lb as mentioned is the figure. One mod that was done - the early sleeve bolts had fine threads - BSF, probably because that was what the Villiers engine had as standard. These were later changed to Whitworth, along with the studs. I wouldn't worry too much though, my Anglian has the fine threads and I haven't managed to strip them yet (famous last words!).

Anyway, I hope you get things sorted out, there is always plenty of 'advice' on here!

Rob

[Brian Thompson]

Info.

Nice post Rob, great info.

[dave higgins]

welcome, another brian...

Hi brian, & welcome to the forum, very wise, & well observed words from m34a, the forum holds a wealth of knowledge, all waiting to be dispatched to new members like yourself, by experienced greeves owners, that know all the trials & tribulations of this marque, info you just can`t google!!!!.
But to reasure you of your concern over the stripped threads in your crankcases, fear not, a correctly fitted helecoil is stronger than the original thread itself, so good luck with your bike & hope to see you using the forum... dave.

[Phil Hyde]

Helicoiling

Just a few thoughts on helicoiling. Often used as a repair system. Correctly installed the finished size produces a stronger thread than the original material directly tapped. So, if faced with a stripped thread consider a thread insert on all threads on a given face. Cleanliness and loctite are keys to success.

[brian g brown]

A little history

Hello Riders, Thanks for all the interest, just what I needed.
Binning it was very tongue in cheek.
When purchased the bike was geared for the road. I have fitted a 13 tooth final sprocket,62 tooth rear wheel sprocket, new chain, chain tensioner, Amal throttle control and Villiers electronic ignition.
The bike was registered in Cumbria and I hope it will be nearly back to how it should be.
Regards to all
Brian

[John Pattinson]

Compression Plate

The original compression plate was steel and about 40thou thick. Simon now makes them in alloy and are readily available. TES are horrible without the compression plate...John P.

[brian g brown]

brian brown

Hello Marcelle,
My bike is due back this week 16/12 with Heliciol job completed,when I will post pictures of cylinder and head.
What is a Phenolic spacer?
I have purchased a pack of various gasket papers, as the cylinder base gasket set for the 32A engine that I have may differ from that required for an Alloy cylinder. If I have to make a base gasket, what thickness should this be.
bri b

[brian g brown]

brian brown

The original compression plate was steel and about 40thou thick. Simon now makes them in alloy and are readily available. TES are horrible without the compression plate...John P.

Thanks John, Who is Simon.
bri b