1964 Greeves 24TES

[nzpeterb]

Hi all,

I have just purchased a 1964 Greeves 24TES and go to collect it next weekend. Would appreciate any comments as found, but not concerned with lighting or speedo as will be used for trails, though want it to be as original as practical.
The bike was imported from America two owners ago and the motor is described as loosely assembled. I can identify the following but correct me if I am wrong or miss something.
The 18 inch alloy front wheel should be 21 inch chrome steel
No seat or pump.
I understand the rear mounting of the tank is also not right.
Are the guards correct or should they be the fibreglass type?
Is the number plate on the rear guard the circular rubber disk being offered by someone on Ebay.
Should the tank be silver or blue?
Any other comments welcome, also best sources for parts.
Regards,
Peter.

[John Wakefield]

TES pics

Here is a link to a 1963 TES (couple of pics) http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/picture...eeves-24tes-2/
Looks like it should have fibre glass mudguards. Rear number plate should be square rubber (not fitted on bike in pics). Petrol tank is alloy. This is for a UK spec bike exported models may have differed.

[riflegreen]

Another pic form the time , Don Smith in a publicity shot .

[nzpeterb]

Thank you for the replies.
I really like the period photo.
Looks like my tank is the wrong one, as it appears to be steel rather than alloy. I will check when I collect the bike.
Does the GRA do spares or are there recognised sources?
I assume if I joined the GRA they could tell me which dealer in USA the bike was originally despatched to.
Regards,
Peter.

[John Wakefield]

Your tank is steel off an earlier TAS model. Alloy tanks are available new from
Holt Works http://www.holtworks.co.uk/homeframe.htm in UK but are on long waiting list and expensive.
The GRA do not directly deal in spares, however there are independent suppliers of many parts (including fibreglass mudguards) which are published in the Leading Link which members get bi monthly. As a member you can also advertise for spares in LL as well as in the Members area on this forum
Naturally being a UK based club the majority of suppliers & advertisers are in the UK & may not be prepared to ship parts abroad
Not sure if GRA can verify dealer as export records do not exist within GRA.
Maybe Frank Connelly or someone in the USA may know.

[Brian Thompson]

GRA Spares etc.

Your tank is steel off an earlier TAS model.
The GRA do not directly deal in spares, however there are independent suppliers of many parts (including fibreglass mudguards) which are published in the Leading Link which members get bi monthly.
Naturally being a UK based club the majority of suppliers & advertisers are in the UK & may not be prepared to ship parts abroad.
Not sure if GRA can verify dealer as export records do not exist within GRA.
Maybe Frank Connelly or someone in the USA may know.

Hi Peter,

To clarify, although the GRA indeed do not deal directly in spares, the listing of spares suppliers published in the bi-monthly newsletter ('Leading Link') is of GRA members who produce certain parts to original factory spec utilising original factory drawings from the GRA archive. Many spares produced by these members have been provided for overseas members over the years, as have copies of factory drawings (another service to members, provided at modest cost) so that parts may be fabricated in the owners locality or by the member themselves. The GRA spares scheme (i.e. those spares produced and provided via other GRA club members) is co-ordinated by GRA Committee members Dave Bradley and Tim Griffin (address in 'LL') who might also be able to put members in touch with a supplier/source of spares not listed in the newsletter. In addition, other trade suppliers of parts suitable for Greeves machines advertise in the newsletter. However, whilst every effort is made to ensure that the spares listed in 'LL' are appropriate, the publication of the list does not imply a liability on the part of the GRA for the quality, suitablity, availabilty, delivery or value of any spares so supplied.

Frank Conley is a trader based in the USA who holds stocks of original (and reproduced) Greeves spares (http://www.greevesguru.com/) as well as being a valuable source of information and advice.

Finally, the steel tank on your bike was also fitted to TC(S) and TD(S) trials models as well as Hawstone scrambler models.

We have many members in New Zealand and Australia, and most members are happy to share their contact details with fellow members, which is another excellent reason for joining the club!

Best of luck with your bike!

Brian.

[nzpeterb]

Brian and John,

Thank you for your informative replies.
Can't wait to collect the bike this weekend and get to work on it.

Regards,

Peter.

[Brian Thompson]

Good Point!

Hi M,

Now you come to mention it.......! I reckon you might well be onto something there, well remembered! I too am not 100% certain, but I may have read it somewhere (or something!) too...

Chris, Kenny or Druid might know...any thoughts lads?

It certainly is a nice bike Peter, congratulations!

Brian.

[Brian Thompson]

More TES Pics.

Following on from M's comments above, I've had a quick dig and sure enough...!

Pic 1 shows a young Bill Wilkinson riding his square exhaust TES in the 1963 Victory trial. Note steel tank and full width hubs (with rubber cush drive in rear), just like on Peters bike! Also, this pic shows the (Moorland Blue coloured) fibreglass mudguards usually fitted to these models.

Pic 2 shows the highly developed TES built by Don 'DR' Smith in late 1963. Note the alloy tank and that the rear frame loop has been cut down, with everything possible drilled, lightened and polished. This bike was very much the 'test bed' for the mods that were incorporated into the later TFS model. The TFS was in turn replaced by the once again much changed TGS Anglian model.

I found the above pics and accompanying information in Don Morleys' excellent (and now long out of print) book 'Classic British Two Stroke Trials Bikes' (ISBN 0-85045-745-9), well worth seeking out a copy if you can find one, and at a reasonable price. I hope, Don, that you will forgive me reproducing them here!

Incidently, the 18" front wheel was a popular mod for desert racing in the US, so perhaps at some point Peter's bike may have been employed in this way, or perhaps it was a 'Nicholson Motors' spec bike and came with it 'as ordered' from the factory in the UK. The trials tyre on the front and knobbly on the rear would seem to suggest it. Any thoughts Kenny?

Brian.

[Bearingman]

Following on from M's comments above, I've had a quick dig and sure enough...!

Pic 1 shows a young Bill Wilkinson riding his square exhaust TES in the 1963 Victory trial. Note steel tank and full width hubs (with rubber cush drive in rear), just like on Peters bike! Also, this pic shows the (Moorland Blue coloured) fibreglass mudguards usually fitted to these models.

Pic 2 shows the highly developed TES built by Don 'DR' Smith in late 1963. Note the alloy tank and that the rear frame loop has been cut down, with everything possible drilled, lightened and polished. This bike was very much the 'test bed' for the mods that were incorporated into the later TFS model. The TFS was in turn replaced by the once again much changed TGS Anglian model.

I found the above pics and accompanying information in Don Morleys' excellent (and now long out of print) book 'Classic British Two Stroke Trials Bikes' (ISBN 0-85045-745-9), well worth seeking out a copy if you can find one, and at a reasonable price. I hope, Don, that you will forgive me reproducing them here!

Incidently, the 18" front wheel was a popular mod for desert racing in the US, so perhaps at some point Peter's bike may have been employed in this way, or perhaps it was a 'Nicholson Motors' spec bike and came with it 'as ordered' from the factory in the UK. The trials tyre on the front and knobbly on the rear would seem to suggest it. Any thoughts Kenny?

Brian.

Hi Brian!

It is hard to say on the TES. I don't recall a USA spec trail version of the TES...I'm only aware of the TFS based trail version and later; the Anglian based "Ranger".

The few TES that I've come across have all been the trials version. They might have come over with the 19" wheel and large steel tank...I just don't know...I do know this... a few Internationals made it over here based on the TES.

By looks of the photo, it appears to have been modified in the states with the alloy rims and the typical big wide bars used over here.

I wish I could be of more help.

Regards,
Kenny

[Brian Thompson]

1964 24tes.

Hiya Kenny!

Thanks for chippin' in bud, as always.

I reckon if it was my bike I'd be tempted to keep the steel tank, get some Moorland Blue (whatever that is...!) fibreglass mudguards and build a Bill Wilkinson Replica!

Over to you Peter!

Brian.

PS As an aside (and at the risk of going off-topic! ) , has anyone noticed how much the 'thumbs-up' icon we can add to post titles (as I have above) looks like the one in the Bultaco logo.....oh, the irony!!!

[Andy Z]

PS As an aside (and at the risk of going off-topic! ) , has anyone noticed how much the 'thumbs-up' icon we can add to post titles (as I have above) looks like the one in the Bultaco logo.....oh, the irony!!!

Hi Brian,

At the risk of appearing to be a Bultaco nerd (I do have a couple), thats not the Bultaco logo. It appears to have been hi-jacked by someone, as it should say "CEMOTO" at the bottom, not "ME MOTO"!!!

Cheers,
Andrew
#190

[nzpeterb]

Thanks again for the replies and period photos, but a couple more questions.

Does anyone have records of the American imports? My bike was at one point registered in California as A99 U?? . It seems likely it did pass through Nicholson's but it would be good to know more, or any despatch information from the factory. Does anyone have these records?

Can anyone give advise on riding the bike in trials? Changing from the 18 inch front wheel back to the original 21 inch will increase the turning circle by lifting the front. Could this be a disadvantage? The only other Greeves trials I have seen in New Zealand was a converted road bike with 19 inch front wheel.

This other Greeves had the same wide handle bars with the curved cross bar. Is this original Greeves and is it sacrilage to cut them down narrower to fit between trees. Should I keep them in-tact and use other bars instead?

Did the tank have Greeves transfers each side? I assume the blue and white ones.

Are the brake torque arms painted silver or plated?

Thanks,

Peter

[John Wakefield]

Extra info re badges

Thanks again for the replies and period photos, but a couple more questions.

Does anyone have records of the American imports? My bike was at one point registered in California as A99 U?? . It seems likely it did pass through Nicholson's but it would be good to know more, or any despatch information from the factory. Does anyone have these records?

Can anyone give advise on riding the bike in trials? Changing from the 18 inch front wheel back to the original 21 inch will increase the turning circle by lifting the front. Could this be a disadvantage? The only other Greeves trials I have seen in New Zealand was a converted road bike with 19 inch front wheel.

This other Greeves had the same wide handle bars with the curved cross bar. Is this original Greeves and is it sacrilage to cut them down narrower to fit between trees. Should I keep them in-tact and use other bars instead?

Did the tank have Greeves transfers each side? I assume the blue and white ones.

Are the brake torque arms painted silver or plated?

Thanks,

Peter

To answer some of the questions you have asked
Front Wheel: You really do need a 21 inch front wheel if you are to do trials. The tyre size would be 275 x 21 trials pattern.
Handle bars: These are personal preference & some riders prefer low bars others high. As for width about 30 inches would be about right.
Badges: For the steel tank like you have the badges are cast aluminium held on with two screws. The ones for your bike would have SCOTTISH on them & are available on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/greeves-scotti...item3a670b5936
Looking at your tank it looks as though a previous owner has filled the fixing holes. These are threaded inserts brazed or welded in the tank. If you cannot find these or remove the filling DO NOT drill further holes on tank. You may in that case have to stick the badges on with adhesive or double sided tape.
Torque arms could be either painted or chrome.

[Colin Sparrow]

Hi Peter, done a bit of digging in the Archive and the original Greeves catalogues (you did say you were going to join the GRA, didn't you..?

TES tank should be alloy. The budget version TE had a steel tank.

The rear seat mount looks ok - it isn't supposed to share the rear subframe bolt.

It should have fibreglass mudguards (the TE had alloy)

The tank on either model should be silver (polished alloy for a TES)

Your rear brake torque arm looks wrong anyway. The TE and TES both had steel British hubs, the short torque arm was part of the brake-plate - and was therefore painted Moorland Blue.

Handlebars and wheels are a matter of personal choice. There is no such thing as an original competition bike, they always get modified.

It's your bike, do what you like with it! I should give it a try as it is (well, with a seat on!) and see how you get on and then start modifying.