Who was first?

[Brian Catt]

From Ernst Hausler, Switzerland. On 24.1.1961 we as Importer of Greeves since 1959 delivered a complete rolling chassis to a Swiss MX Rider Hans Knöpfel from Basel. He put an NSU 4 str.250 cc engine into this chassis with Frame No. SCS 61/1963

[John Wakefield]

Brian Stonebridge by 2 years he was riding his NSU Greeves in 1959 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...04436269724623

[johnrunnacles]

Can probably make that 3 years, Brian/John. Brian S must have been putting his together in 1958 for them to be up-and-running at start of the 1959 season .............. ?

[johnrunnacles]

And according to Carrick & Walker, there were at least four NSU-engined Hawkstones around in 1959. BGS built two of course, and one was built in Northern Ireland by Terry Hill, with a fourth one very similar to Stonebridge's being constructed by Ginger Dunn of Bridport, Dorset.

[Colin Sparrow]

Brian Stonebridge put an NSU engine into a Hawkstone in 1958. He rode it in practice at the British Coupe D'Europe meeting in June 1958, but didn't race it. Please see page 66 of my book. The bike is now owned and raced by Barry Keymer.

Vic Allan has built an excellent replica of Stonebridge's 1959 bike. Of course the actual 1959 bike is still around.

[Brian Catt]

I wonder where Brian saw the NSU engine in action? He obviously identified the potential that engine promised very quickly.

[John Wakefield]

Back in 1958 the 250cc NSU Super Max engine was very advanced for its day, ohc valves and high revving, no British 250 came any where near, best we could offer was the BSA C11. Also to its favor the NSU engine was unit construction with gearbox.

[johnrunnacles]

BSA C15 came out in 1958. It too was unit construction with gearbox, and was successful in scrambles/motocross and trials, and was competitive against the two-strokes of the day (including Greeves) in the hands of the likes of Jeff Smith, Arthur Lampkin, etc.

[John Wakefield]

Yes but I dont think the C15 was actually in production early in 58. Would have been announced at the Sept 58 Motor Cycle Show, in any case the C15 when first introduced was far from its later developed state when successful in scrambles, also BSA would not have agreed to sell engines, and second hand ones would not have been available, The NSU engine was far more advanced and powerful that the C15 at that time and available.

[johnrunnacles]

The C15 unit was already proven in scrambles, and was sufficiently well developed in 1959 to be successful in the 250 British Grand Prix at Beenham Park. Jeff Smith on a C15 came second to Rolf Tibblin, and John Draper on a second C15 also finished ahead of Brian Stonebridge in the same International event. Weight would have been as much a consideration as comparative power output in a scrambles setting. Playing "Devil's Advocate", perhaps BGS opted for the (heavier?) NSU "lump" for his special for the very reason stated, because BSA were reluctant to sell him their unit (?)

[John Wakefield]

It was probably more likely that Brian came across a 250cc NSU Max engine (he may have bought a complete bike) as the NSU had been in production since 1952. by 1954 the engine was producing 21 bhp in the MAX TT. https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/c...t-zmwz13jfzbea a good Villiers 9E would struggle to give 10 bhp!