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The Cheney Greeves (Post 1 of 2.)

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  • The Cheney Greeves (Post 1 of 2.)

    I thought I'd post some more info on this bike, what little I have anyway (!), following the interest generated on a previous thread related to the 'MX Bikes' website (www.mxbikes.com) and my discovering a pic on there of one of these rarest of Greeves hybrid 'specials'. I hope it will be of interest to newer members who may not be familiar with this fascinating machine.

    Information on the Cheney Greeves project was published in 'Leading Link' #21 (August 1988), and was based around an article on the prototype from 'Motor Cycle' (22 December 1966 issue) by Peter Fraser, who also tested the machine for the peice.

    It was conceived by Eric Cheney at a time of change, when the big 500cc four strokes of the day were being challenged (sorry!) in the class by the lightweight 360cc two stroke machines, with an eye to achieving similar results in the 250cc class. Peter Fraser was very impressed with the bike when he rode it, as were other high profile riders of the day.

    Finished in a combination of Jaguar grey paint and polished alloy, the bike was a typical example of Eric Cheney's superb craftsmanship. The brazed frame was fabricated from Reynolds 531 tubing and fitted with Timken taper-roller steering head bearings, with fully floating (and shrouded) needle roller bearings at the swinging arm pivot. To facilitate chain adjustment, the rear wheel spindle was located in oblong serrated plates which engaged with matching serrations on the swinging arm. Forks were Ceriani and mounted in Cheney fabricated yokes. The weight of the bare frame and swinging arm was only 17 1/2" lbs (!), and the wheelbase was 54". The weight of the whole bike was only 198 lbs, and a further 8 lbs. could be saved with the fitting of Cheney lightweight wheel hubs. This figure was some 20 lbs. lighter than an 'average' two fifty of the day!

    Another innovative feature was the location of the light alloy 1 1/2 gallon fuel tank underneath the seat, aimed at lowering the centre of gravity, with the 'fuel tank' merely being a 'shroud' to protect the rider's knees from the up-and-over exhaust system.

    The engine was a 246cc Greeves Challenger, with the exhaust port modified and relocated to a central position and the light alloy expansion chamber retained by tension springs. The carb was a 1 1/4" Amal Concentric and the standard Stefa ignition was retained. The gearbox, a modified BSA Victor unit, was attached to the rear of the crankcase by small plates. The Victor clutch (with duplex primary drive) was fitted in a slightly lengthened Greeves chaincase. Eric Cheney favoured this gearbox for it's robust tooth and shaft dimensions, and positive gear selection.

    Pics 1-4 below are from that 'Motor Cycle' article, and the final pic is another image I managed to find on the net. There is very little out there about this bike! Note (on Pic 4) the chain guide attached to the brake torque arm, dished bolt heads, and attention to weight saving and detail everywhere!

    More to follow....

    Brian.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Brian Thompson; 07/11/2010, 10:45 AM. Reason: Pics added.

  • #2
    The Cheney Greeves (Post 2 of 2.)

    Following on from Eric Cheney building the prototype machine, the Greeves factory showed some 'official' interest but apparently it didn't come to anything. There is a picture in the 'LL' #21 article about the bike showing Eric Cheney (with his prototype) discussing it's features with John Ralling and Derry Preston-Cobb. The caption says John Ralling looks 'sceptical', and it must be said that the photograph certainly bears this out...!

    Then, in 1967 a picture appeared of a 360cc engine built by Eric Cheney, consisting of a Maico barrel grafted onto a Challenger crankcase. An interesting modification was that the main bearings were sealed, with their oil supplied from a seperate reservoir. Cheney planned this as a stepping stone towards a Cheney designed head and barrel, but very little is known what became of this project. Can anyone provide any further info...? Pic 1 below shows this machine, and note the repositioning of the expansion chamber to below the engine.

    The next development was a very similar frame marketed by Cheney in 'kit' form (as the 'John Banks Replica' in America), and it could be possible that the bike in the last pic below (Greeves 360cc engine) is based on one of these 'production' kits, although it does appear to lack the snail-cam chain adjusters on the rear wheel spindle, or the serated adjuster plates of the original prototype(s) come to that....! Wheel hubs may be magnesium items (I'm guessing from the finish), which were also offered as options with the kits. On Michael Moore's excellent 'Eurospares' website (http://www.eurospares.com/index.htm), there is a copy of an original 'Knobbie Shop International' (KSI) catalogue (USA dealer) which includes details of these frame kits, special parts and accessories, which could be adapted to suit a variety of engines and specifications. There are lots of other 'period' items marketed in the brochure which will be familiar to many of us from 'back in the day'...remember the 'Big John' "Yellow Perils" motocross boots anyone?! Brilliant stuff! Here are the links to the catalogue pages;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #1;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #2;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #3;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #4;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #5;

    Cheney Catalogue-page #6;


    As before, if anyone does have any further info to add on these interesting and rare bikes, especially the Cheney Greeves prototype(s) and what became of them (or if they're still around...), we'd all love to hear about it...!

    Brian.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Brian Thompson; 20/06/2012, 11:51 AM. Reason: Links and Pics added.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wonder if AJS got any ideas from the Cheney bike, as the Stormer that appeared shortly after the proto bike appeared seems to be along very similar lines?

      Seems a shame that Greeves werent interested though as moving away from the alloy H frames, may well have meant they would have remained in business longer.

      Then again they may have gone to something even worse, as was with the case with BSA/Triumph when they introduced the hideous Umberslade Hall oil in frame abortion, which I guess was yet another nail in the coffin of the British motorcycle industry.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cheney Greeves

        It was Bert himself who insisted on retaining the Aluminium beam.
        There were a couple of reasons why Greeves didn't take up the Cheney frame kit. It would have always been referred to as a Cheney Greeves - not Greeves Cheney, something Bert couldn't accept, and secondly Cheneys kit was always very well made, very expensive and difficult to replicate on a volume production basis.

        Druid

        Comment


        • #5
          Cheney Greeves.

          Thanks for the additional and interesting info Druid, as always.

          Personally, I'd always thought Eric Cheney's prototype an indication of the respect he must have had for the Greeves engine in order to have chosen it.

          Of course, with their own tubular framed design in the form of the Griffon waiting in the wings I guess there would have been little point in Greeves taking the Cheney concept further...

          Brian.

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