East Coaster Problems

[ian 2 stroke]

Hi,
I have recently put my East Coaster back on the road. The ignition was strobed after setting the pistons to 0.156 BTDC with slips and a dial indicator.
The points set up is as original so the timing was set on both pots.
The carb was fitted with new jets and needle.
Perhaps it is normal for a 4T but if it drops to 35 in top, or the same revs in third, the motor goes completely flat. It doesn't matter what I do with the throttle it just goes slower. The feeling is the same as when a motor tightens up. It's not that as dropping a gear has it leaping away.
Keep it over 45 in top and even the Cornish hills don't slow it down.
When I fitted the new jets I couldn't find any markings on the pilot jet and therefore only have Villiers Sevices word that it is a 35CC jet.
If it isn't could this cause the problem or is there some other problem?
Ian.

[John Wakefield]

This is normal 4T characteristics, you have to keep it on the boil. It should
be ok at 30 mph in top & should be able to increase speed from this with small throttle openings. One thing two strokes dont like is to open throttle wide at low revs. I suppose the motor could be a bit tight as from my records on this machine the last owner did not ride it much (if at all). Maybe give it a few miles & see what its like then. Its very difficult to diagnose without riding it and as im in Cambridgeshire & you are in Cornwall thats not possible. If you want to give me a ring (01223 843802) I will talk it over with you.

[ian 2 stroke]

East Coaster Probs.

Hi John,
Thanks for the offer to talk it over. For now I will take your advice and put some more miles on and see what happens.
I did wonder if it might be that is just the way 2 stroke twins are. Obviously a lot to learn.
Your right about the usage. According to the MOT's I have it did 48 miles between 2006 and 2008 and nothing thereafter. It's done rather more than that already.
I'll let you know one way or the other when I have put those miles on.
Ian.

[merlin]

Being new to two strokes it took a little time to realise that I needed to keep the revs up for top performance.

[John Wakefield]

EC problems

Ian
I have been out on my EC today & tried accelerating away from 30mph in top gear, whilst it will 'gain speed' it will not accelerate away rapidly. You have to give it only small amounts of throttle, a big handfull will make it gasp. Also don't forget my bike has higher than standard gearing (48 tooth rear sprocket). For normal gear changes to give good accelleration I change up at 20mph in 2nd & 40 mph in 3rd. As I said your engine may still be tight so will take around 1000 miles to fully loosen up.
The carb settings are as follows:
Main jet 180
Pilot jet 35
Throttle slide No 3 cutaway
Needle No 3 1/2 set to protrude 1.94 inches

Whats starting like?

[ian 2 stroke]

East Coaster

Hi John,
You and me both. I took mine out today to try some of your suggestions. Mine is still on the 52 tooth rear sprocket. It's fine down to about 35 in top and then it gets somewhat rough. Opening the thottle very carefully on a flat road it will eventually pick up but if there is any form of hill then no thottle position makes any difference. Keep it above 40 in top, or equivilant revs in the other gears, and it flys. In fact I am somewhat suprised just how well it does go when in the top end of the rev band. Well enough to make me think it would be worth fitting the 48 tooth sprocket.
Having replaced all the jets and the needle I know they are to the specification you give. I did a plug chop to check it and both plugs are a lovely light brown colour.
The starting seems resonable. Very sensitive to how much the carb is flooded when cold. Too much or too little and I can kick all day but get it right and it will usually start within 3 or 4 kicks. Using the choke makes no difference. Hot is normally 1st or 2nd. The inbetween, warm rather than hot, is sometimes a bit indifferent.
You say my engine may still be tight. Does that mean your records show that the engine has been rebuilt as I have nothing to suggest that. If it was I don't know what was done because there are very few signs of it being much. The primary chain needs replacing so that wasn't done and neither was the gearbox as that weeps oil round the seals such as the kickstarter.
I've put about 200 miles on it now and it does seem better but I wonder if that is just me learning how to ride it and getting used to keeping it buzzing.
Would having stood idle for so long gum it up and now it has some miles on it it's blowing the muck out?
Ian.

[John Wakefield]

Ian
I have no positive evidence that the engine was rebuilt other than that the bike was restored by a previous owner. Maybe you could check back on the previous owners to see what they did. The fact that it starts ok (same as mine) & goes ok above 40 seems to indicate the engine is ok. Mine was layed up for 12 years & was slugish when I first put it back on road. See how it goes after a few more miles.
One further thing to check is the exhaust system, the original type for the 4T had non detachable baffles (non cleanable) Does it sound stiffled? If the silencers have detachable baffle tubes remove them & decoke. Personally I dont think it would be the exhaust as the bike would loose its top end rather than bottom end performance.

The following extract from the Motor Cycle Mechanics road test Sept 1965 highlights the problem:

"One curious quality of the motor is the flat absence of power until something over 4000 rpm is reached. The surge comes pouring in very smoothly until maximum rpm is reached, when it suddenly disappears.
Gearing is obviously selected to give a respectable maximum of just on 80 mph, but the price that has to be paid is lack of guts in top gear until 45mph is on the clock. To keep the bike really active in traffic or built up areas means hanging on to third, and this gives poor petrol economy if driven hard"

So sounds as though your bike is perfoming to spec Ian.

(Brian if you have a copy of the East Coaster road test maybe you could scan it & paste it up on forum.)

[John Wakefield]

EC Road Test

Pig Farmer Magazines have a back copy a £2.99
MOTORCYCLE MECHANICS SEPTEMBER 1965
HARLEY DAVIDSON XLCH ROAD TEST – GREEVES EAST COSTER 250cc ROAD TEST – HONDA 250cc ENGINE STRIP – ARIEL RACER PART 2 – BSA In stock: 1

http://www.pigfarmerbikemagazines.co.uk/

[ian 2 stroke]

Hi John,
Thanks for the road test extract. From that it would indeed seem that my EC is performing as could be expected. From my calculations on EC gearing 40MPH is 3500 revs. Fractionally better than theirs?? Certainly from 40 up it is fine, and, since it seems happy to hit 50 in third, then, if that is the way it needs to be ridden, so be it.
The test mentions fuel. Mine is around 50MPG. Considering 2 strokes have a tendancy to be thirsty I find that quite acceptable. My 20DC isn't much better than that, although that is possibly something to do with the Cornish hills.
As my silencers have screws in the side right at the tail end I would say the baffles are removable. It would probably be worth looking just to be sure, but, as you say, with the way it goes at the top end it's unlikely. It certainly doesn't sound as though they are blocked. It's not quite as loud as the 20DC but definitely a healthy exaust note.
So it would seem the answer to the question I posed in my original post is yes. It is a perfectly normal 4T powered East Coaster.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my queries. It's reassuring to know all is as it should be. I can now stop worrying and get on with enjoying riding it.
Ian.

[Brian Thompson]

EC roadtest articles etc.

Sorry chaps, I'm afraid I don't have that copy of 'MM' with the EC roadtest, so I can't help there, sadly. For interest, Jim Rendells tidy EC was featured in a nice article (with some good colour pics too) in 'Real Classic' issue #17. I had a quick check though, and no mention was made of the engine 'issues' you guys have been discussing, but it might be nice to seek out a back copy for the read etc. (See here, and scroll down the page as it's near the bottom; http://www.realclassic.co.uk/aboutfi...t04052600.html)

However, it seems as though progress has been made in diagnosing the issue, I'm pleased to see.

Hope you get lots of enjoyment from riding your bike(s) Ian!

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

The Pig Farmer has 2 copies in stock @ £2.49 plus postage
REAL CLASSIC NEW COPY Issue No 17
FOR MACHINE TESTS REFER TO MAGAZINE INDEX In stock: 2

[Brian Thompson]

East Coaster Articles In 'Leading Link'.

It might also be worth mentioning to Ian your useful articles in back issues of 'Leading Link' John, assuming he doesn't already have them of course. Well worth having, and some back issue numbers are still available through the club, although I'm not sure which numbers might be left.

Below are listed the issues I was thinking of, and it's worth checking the index on the GRA website for other issues that may be of help/interest. See here for the alphabetical version; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/LLINDEX149A.pdf (Note that a numerical version is also available to download from the website.)

East Coaster Articles In 'Leading Link';

#109 ; East Coasters (John Wakefield.)
Also; 25DC 'East Coaster' - Register of Known Survivors (3-updated.)
Note; (1) appeared in #98, and (2) appeared in issue #103.

#142 ; East Coasters (John Wakefield.) - update.

#147 ; Discovering The History Of An East Coaster (John Wakefield.)

#149 ; Another East Coaster Restored (John Wakefield.)

Hope this helps,

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

Richard Rosenthial road tested my East Coaster in The Classic Motor Cycle in the November 2001 issue. Still available from Mortons (Pig Farmer does not seem to have this one)

https://classicissues.com/bidetail.asp?AutoNo=1001012&Submit2=Show+issue