Is it possible that someone can identity the 2T Villiers engine I intend to put in my 25DB project. It came with an Essex Twin MK2 I bought back in the mid 70s. The Essex Twin had the correct 4T motor fitted but this came as a spare engine. I believe John Wakefield is a master at this sort of thing. So if you can help John I would be very grateful. The engine number is 808B 9359. It would be nice to know if it actually came out of a Greeves in the first place. Thanks Chris.
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The 808B series is a 2T supplied to Ambassador for the Super S fitted with an S22 Carb. No actual production date just listed as between 1956 & 1968, the Super S was in production from 1958 to 1963 with 2T and in 1964 with a 4T.
So it did not come from a Greeves but would be the correct year for a 25DBLast edited by John Wakefield; 09/05/2018, 11:48 AM. -
Thank you John. What would the club do without you. Your knowledge is invaluable. Nice to know that at least the year is correct. I remember using it in the Essex Twin with the correct carb and it ran well, so worth putting it to use again. Project is proceeding well now. The frame is actually from a DB24 but as I have the engine with plates it makes sense to make use of it. I didn't realise that so many parts differ between models (i.e. centre stand and footrests etc) When completed I will post it on here for all to see. Should be finished this year. Thanks again John. Regards Chris.Comment
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Identifying Villiers Engines.....
In the interests of assisting members who wish to identify a Villiers engine unit, assuming of course that the ID number plate is 'original (
!), I'd like to point out that the info given by John Wakefield above can be found in the following publications;
'Villiers - Everybody's Engine' (2010.) Written by ex GRA member and Villiers engine specialist of world reknown Rob Carrick and Mick Walker, author of over 115 books on motorcycling, both now very sadly no longer with us and much missed. The info JW gave is contained in Appendix 4, pp 262, on page 274. In the introduction to the appendix, the authors state, and I quote, "The following list has been compiled by John Wood and is the result of his detailed investigation, with information being gathered from many sources. It is by no means complete, but is now considered to be the most comprehensive list available to Villiers motorcycle engine users. Some industrial engine codes have been added." John Wood also produces the excellent "Villiers Improvements Handbook", once again co-authored by our own Rob Carrick. For more on John Wood and his excellent books and website, see this link; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...ead.php?t=2259
"Villiers Singles & Twins" by Roy Bacon (1992.) The info JW gave above on the Ambassador Super S can be found in Part Three Appendix/Villiers Engine Numbers, pp 131, on page 149 in the 'Machine Specifications' section. Roy's book also includes likely the first comprehensive listing of Villiers engines numbers to be published and I quote, "Whilst incomplete, it is believed that this is the only comprehensive Villiers engine listing outside the factory and it is presented in that light to offer assistance to readers" Incidently, Roy mentions our late dear and sorely missed mate Chris Goodfellow ('Riflegreen' on here) in his acknowledgements for supplying later Greeves information for his work. Chris was a legend in GRA circles, and still is....rightly so.
Both the above books are still available, although Roy's book is long out of print so it will be a case of shopping around to find one at a reasonable price, should you want a copy. Happily, Rob and Mick's book is still in print and contains the most up to date and comprehensive listings of Villers engine numbers and model information currently available. Both are highly recommended. Here are some links to copies currently for sale on Amazon;
Whilst is was good of JW to look up this info for a fellow GRA member, I think it is very important to attribute credit where it is most certainly due, especially when it involves members who have passed away and who's unselfish and diligent research, not to mention hard work, is why these days the info is freely available to all who know where to look for it, which is the point of my post. After all, looking it up in a book is hardly the same thing really, but thanks to them at least we all can now. I had the great pleasure of knowing Rob, Mick (over many years) and Chris, and a nicer, more genuine bunch of true motorcycling enthusiasts and decent blokes you couldn't wish to meet....sadly, sadly missed, one and all.
I hope this info will help a few GRA members with their own research into Villiers engines, especially newcomers.
Brian.Attached FilesComment
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Quite so Brian, no problems, but I would say that my list has been up dated several times since the book Villiers Everybodies Engine was published with engine numbers that have come to light after it was published. I did liaise with the late Rob Carrick and exchanged info on numbers that have come to light since. I would add also that there are still many numbers missing, many to smaller manufacturers of go-karts and micro cars. The other two earlier publications do not have such comprehenisve listsLast edited by John Wakefield; 13/05/2018, 07:51 PM.Comment
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Correction.....
John....where in my post does it say that 'The Villiers Improvements Handbook' contains ANY listing of engine numbers, 'comprehenisve' or otherwise? It doesn't.....so why would I have said so?Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
In regard to Roy's book, I clearly stated it was likely 'the first' such listing to be published but the listing for Rob and Mick's later book was now considered the most comprehensive available, which was a direct quote from the authors....in 2010.
Obviously, new numbers will have come to light since it was published in 2010, but it remains, once again as I clearly stated, the most comprehensive listing currently available....unless you've been keeping quiet about that imminent book deal that is.....
Brian.Comment
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OK so the Villiers Improvement Handbook does not have an engine list, and the Villiiers Singles and Twins book does have a smaller amount of numbers. The point is that I have added to the Rob Carrick (Villiers Everybodies Engine) book listing so if members cant find an engine number in there I may have it listed on my updated copy.Comment
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......and members who may wish to conduct their own research into this fascinating company (and look up an engine number) and may not have been aware now know where to look, with due credit and respect having been afforded to those who did the original work (a huge task) on which you have based your ongoing research.
Brian.Comment
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Let's give credit all round and get on with life.....Comment
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Another unlisted Villiers engine number
I have just come across another unlisted engine type (in Villiers Everybodies Engine) a 9E serial number 787B
The ones each side 786B are a 31C going to H B Engineering and 788B a 9E also going to H B Engineering. So looks like 787B may also have gone to them. Not sure who H B Engineering were, but probably a Go Kart manufacturer.
The engine is currently in a 1959 20TA frame number 59/1051Last edited by John Wakefield; 17/05/2018, 05:06 PM.Comment
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