A Greeves roadster actually being ridden

[John Wakefield]

One for Keith a 32DC Sports Twin two up seen in 2013, location not stated

https://www.flickr.com/photos/imagetaker1/11270511824/in/photolist-bbhN1r-p4ty7N-5MKhvz-5EoVjT-8qc4vo-5Fbp9a-5Etd1w-bKWzmV-8BN5V3-bsm5pr-7erLsk-NFTLq-9iJ6Zp-nxUVws-fen3s2-67hZEX-feBjM7-KA1QY-9KGnkD-4AWBAo-iaWjvo-d4Uroh-bMqTTt-BZj4b-dTANe8-65t6L-4ASnFZ-5xHeYr-cBrUz5-oeCJKK-2B7iK1-ixwc6P-bjXxW1-aTGFfg-c7yAT9-egKsTi-nxUVDS-5xHeS6-etqV9u-6As8et-ayW5b7-fSevM9-mUhefB-g3wsCF-eoWtLs-bscY9N-pdN7rX-5n3tgy-4rwkG3-dBKSZN

One wonders how many Greeves are out there being ridden but maybe not by GRA members

[John Wakefield]

Another 25DB

Another 25DB being ridden in 2008 in the Birmingham area on a VMCC run, https://www.flickr.com/photos/bsanor...fs/2340706945/ A check on the DVLA does not bring up the registration (NSK 639) an age related number, so looks like the bike has been re registered since.

[John Wakefield]

20DB or DC in France

This nice 20DB or DC was seen at Coupes Moto Légende 2012 - Presnois, France (not sure why pic is ated 2006 maybe wrong date setting on camera) One for Keith to look out for.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michel_67/7294184350/in/photolist-c7xVKQ-c6L5JY-c7xVKW-c7yHgU-c7vwrb-c7yAT9-c7ysEN-c7v5ho-c7ucTu-c7xAms-c6L8WS-c7w23s-c7vBBL-c7u6vW-c7v5d5-c7xuNd-c7w23C-c7uZ5C-c7xVLh-c7xuNu-c7y1YU-c7xpG3-c7yReu-c7vBDW-c7ucTq-c7w23J-c7ucTA-c7v5fb-c7uMp7-c7y9uE-c7vBBE-c7u6vY-c7y22b-c7xVLb-c7vchS-c7yHcS-c7v5cE-c7yHgG-c7tZh3-c7ujiS-c7vwqG-c7vwrf-c7zaAm-c6L7Kw-c7w241-c7y9uq-c7vc9f-c7vLLA-c7uSz1-c7z5hQ

[46T Sprocket]

Lovely looking bikes. When I was younger I used to think they looked like an older man's type of bikes - a bit old fashioned looking, and I always much preferred the look of Greeves competition bikes. Now that I'm getting old I'm starting to like their style and want one!

[Guest]

Lovely looking bikes. When I was younger I used to think they looked like an older man's type of bikes - a bit old fashioned looking, and I always much preferred the look of Greeves competition bikes. Now that I'm getting old I'm starting to like their style and want one!

Steady on mate There aren't enough to go round!!!

Keith

[aa will]

i will be looking for one next year, i think a single cyl with a greeves top end would make a nice light fast road bike , (to replace the old mz) will.

[46T Sprocket]

It will drive the price up all this positive talk about Greeves road bikes.

The reality is that in the 60s when these bikes where about, anything with a villiers engine in it was none too reliable in my experience. Between me and my friends we had five or six bikes with villiers engines. Every one of them gave trouble of some sort and needed fettling constantly.

I don't recollect ever being stranded - but sometimes you could never get them going well enough to go somewhere far enough away to get stranded!

The first 2 stroke bike I had that never gave any trouble was a Montesa Cota 4b.

Regards,
David.

Steady on mate There aren't enough to go round!!!

Keith

[John Wakefield]

It will drive the price up all this positive talk about Greeves road bikes.

The reality is that in the 60s when these bikes where about, anything with a villiers engine in it was none too reliable in my experience. Between me and my friends we had five or six bikes with villiers engines. Every one of them gave trouble of some sort and needed fettling constantly.

I don't recollect ever being stranded - but sometimes you could never get them going well enough to go somewhere far enough away to get stranded!

The first 2 stroke bike I had that never gave any trouble was a Montesa Cota 4b.

Regards,
David.

Must say I disagree there Dave, I had lots of Villiers engined bikes in the 60's/70's mainly 8E & 9E, ok the occasional oiled or wiskered plug but never anything major. My current 4T engined Greeves is one of the most reliable bikes I have owned, apart from occasional wiskered plug its dead reliable.
Villiers were a well engineered engine maybe you just happened to get some duff ones, & again they got abused back then. Spares were cheap & you could rebuild a single in a evening on the kitchen table!

[Colin Sparrow]

My early experience with Villiers-engine bikes was that they were unreliable because of being mercilessly thrashed and the resulting cock-ups and bodges caused by my teenage ignorance and lack of cash.

In fact they were providing the starting point for a life-time of doing my own repairs and maintenance - cars, motorcycles - anything really.

Thank you Villiers.

[cray]

Sadly the demise of Villiers as propriety engine was hastened by the 2 strokes from Japan.
My brother in 1966 had a Suzuki T10, with oil injection, electric start a gearbox as smooth as silk and oil tight.
Shame really, but typical I suppose of the leaders of the British Industry of the day and the politicians to not invest in R&D and eventually to pass away into another under funded failure.
I believe it didn't have to be that way. The British motorcycle industry was allowed to pass into history shamefully easily imo.

here endeth the lesson.

Colin

[Brian Catt]

Failing to invest in modern design and production methods, and a complacency regarding the incoming foreign invasion may have had a tad to do with it.

[46T Sprocket]

"Spares were cheap & you could rebuild a single in a evening on the kitchen table!" Not quite true John...... but I get the point. I did similar many times.

You are looking back to those times from an modern adults earnings viewpoint. Back then I was a very poor teenager earning £2.10 shillings a week. (£2.50 in todays money) Stating that spares where cheap then is a relative term... A piston for a 9E was £3 -£4.00 around then for example.

"Villiers were a well engineered engine" Do you really think that Colin? looking at them from a 1940s viewpoint you might be correct. Stephenson's Rocket was well engineered I would guess for its time too. Judging them honestly on a good design basis ( a different thing entirely from just well engineered), the Spanish, German and the Japanese designs that emerged from the 60s rendered them obsolete very quickly.

Quaint and quirky more like - and yes a whole lot of fun. Note I said fun - because I'm not discounting owning one myself again for the questionable engineering. But well engineered? I can't agree. There are so many issues with the designs that they could never be regarded as well engineered.

Regards,
David.

[Stuart Baskill]

Sadly the demise of Villiers as propriety engine was hastened by the 2 strokes from Japan.
My brother in 1966 had a Suzuki T10, with oil injection, electric start a gearbox as smooth as silk and oil tight.
Shame really, but typical I suppose of the leaders of the British Industry of the day and the politicians to not invest in R&D and eventually to pass away into another under funded failure.
I believe it didn't have to be that way. The British motorcycle industry was allowed to pass into history shamefully easily imo.

here endeth the lesson.

Colin

Britain was bankcrupt after the war.Most of our manufacturing equipment was worn out with no money to replace it.America poured money into Japan to stop it becoming a communist state as they did to West Germany.We have only recently paid off our WW2 debts to America.Our railways were worn out and we had a massive housebuilding campaign to replace war damaged houses and replace the many slums.

[John Wakefield]

The thing to remember about the Villiers is that it was a very simple design with a separate bolted on gearbox, most other two strokes were integral construction including the gearbox, which made it less easy to work on.
Villiers never designed the engines as competition engines but merely 'ride to work' & every day road use. It was only when Greeves & other motorcycle manufactures used them in comp. bikes that there were failings due to them not being designed for the higher stresses & tuning that that implied.
For their day they were very well engineered for the purpose intended, & simple enough for the average owner to maintain and overhaul. Apart from the motorcycle side Villiers made 1000's of industrial engines, many still working in lawn mowers, generators, pumps etc to this day. Villiers like Greeves also used many common parts throughout their range. Sorry to disagree with you David but Villiers made a very good product.

[Guest]

Whiskers

In 1957 I bought my used first bike, a Fanny-B Falcon 197 with a Villiers 8E engine. Villiers was all there was except the AMC versions and It's all we could afford. Mine was hammered from day one but there were hundreds of other Villiers riders in Brighton that simply pop-popped to work every day with never a complaint from the engine. Treated as intended they were spot on, a nice simple easy to fix go to work engine.
As John says, hammer it for a couple of miles and the plug would whisker up, out with the plug spanner pick out the tiny ball of lead and away you went. But this only happened if you hammered the bike. We all learned how to de-whisker plugs and tighten the exhaust finned nuts. It was a simple life.
We "tuned" them but just made them louder and actually slower!!

They were superbly simple and designed to do the job.
I loved my Fanny-B it went everywhere, to work, to college and runs up to London at weekends.
Greeves were vastly expensive, about the same price as a three year old Triumph. I saw one just once in 1959 and decided there and then ... one day!!

Keith