25DB parts list

[Trafdlo]

Can anyone please help with a source of a parts list for 25DB?
Also with the part number of the original, correct light switch (Miller I think)
Thanks, Pat H.

[John Wakefield]

Can anyone please help with a source of a parts list for 25DB?
Also with the part number of the original, correct light switch (Miller I think)
Thanks, Pat H.

Tri-cor do some manuals but dont think they do a parts list for 25DB http://www.tri-corengland.com/cgi-bi...eves&ACTION=Go!
The light switch is Miller but dont think it has a number you may care to read these threads on light switches,
http://www.tri-corengland.com/cgi-bi...eves&ACTION=Go!

http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3352&highlight=Light+switch

[Guest]

Hi Pat, I'm sure that the club has 25DB Greeves parts manual copies. I wish I knew who to ask? There are also Villiers manuals. PM John Wakefield, he ought to be able to help.. It's all in the club somewhere.
Good luck.

Can anyone help?

Keith

[John Wakefield]

Don Heath (address in LL) keeps stocks of Greeves Spare Part Lists & Service Sheets but no Spare Parts lists are listed for 25DB. I know of no other source. Did Greeves ever produce one? Repro Villiers manuals are available from various outlets (ie Villiers Services & http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...lliers+manuals

[Trafdlo]

Parts list

Thank you all for the help,
I have Villiers parts list and workshop manuals, also Greeves Service Notes and owners manual, but they don't help with the cycle parts.
John, I have read those previous threads before, which helped me identify that my bikes have the dreaded repro (incorrect) switches fitted.
Surely, someone in the club has found a solution to this problem without resorting to your other (reasonable, but last resort)suggestion of fitting a separate switch to the headlamp feed?
Pat H.

[John Wakefield]

Thank you all for the help,
I have Villiers parts list and workshop manuals, also Greeves Service Notes and owners manual, but they don't help with the cycle parts.
John, I have read those previous threads before, which helped me identify that my bikes have the dreaded repro (incorrect) switches fitted.
Surely, someone in the club has found a solution to this problem without resorting to your other (reasonable, but last resort)suggestion of fitting a separate switch to the headlamp feed?
Pat H.

Apparently not, the easiest solution would be to fit one of the Lucas switches as I have previously described which have the correct switching function for the addition lighting coil needed to balance headlamp. Of course an adapter plate will need to me made to fit these to Greeves aperture.

[AndyB]

Although I don't have either the correct or indeed any Miller type switches on my Fleetwing Special, the solution seems pretty straightforward to me.
As I understand it, the correct switch has the facility to switch in the second lighting coil at the same time as the lights are switched on. At all other times, there is only one coil providing rectified current to the battery.
By connecting two of the lighting coil wires together where they leave the crankcase connector, both coils can be permanently supplying the rectifier.
When these bikes were made, the technology didn't provide a (cheap enough) solution to regulate the current to prevent the battery being over-charged when the lights were not in operation. Nowadays, there are all sorts of electronic reg-rects. available.
My solution was to connect two of the crankcase connectors together, so that the lighting coils are operating in parallel, and use a Rooster Booster 6volt reg-rect. (See later post for wiring diagram for connector)
This ensures that there is always sufficient voltage being produced to keep the battery charged, and operate the headlamp for a reasonable time.(so long as you have a decent capacity battery in the system).
You should be able to use one of the available Miller replica switches with this arrangement.
I have a six-volt Burlen type battery, and in order to conserve power for when I (might) need it after dark, I have fitted a 6 volt LED pilot light to replace the original glow-worm. This LED bulb (from Paul Goff*) seems more visible than either the dipped or main 35W headlamp bulb when viewed in daylight!
Hope this helps,
AndyB

* It did take three attempts to get the correct bulb delivered from PG!

[John Wakefield]

This does seem to be a positive approach to the problem, the Villiers system will generate enough capacity to power headlight, tail light & speedo as long as the correct bulbs are used. I did a test on my bike recently & with headlight on a charge of 1.5 amps is still available to the battery with the engine revving at about 3000 rpm. I have a 25/25 watt headlight bulb in place of the original 30/25watt. If a few amps can be saved by using an LED bulb then so much the better. Unlike more modern jap bikes the generator maximum output is at fairly high revs, so if you are running in top gear at around 30mph the battery may not be receiving a charge & frequent use if the stop light will cause it to discharge. I use a Maplin 6v 10 a/h sealed lead acid battery. Greeves originally specified 9 a/h wet cell. I think it is possible to wire in the ignition primary coils to the charging side but then that requires ignition to be battery powered so a flat battery & you cant start the engine. Best to keep the flywheel mag ignition.

[John Wakefield]

2T electrics

Found this page on the 'net by Bill Drummond (a GRA member I believe)
Quite involved mods but worth a read http://www.users.waitrose.com/~colinatkinson/mq26.htm
I think this article was written some years ago before the current voltage regulators & LED bulbs came about, maybe Bill would like to come on board & bring us up to date with modern technology. Are you out there Bill?

[Trafdlo]

25DB wiring

John and Andy, many thanks for these really helpful suggestions.
Andy I intend to adopt your remedy, but have a couple of queries-
You say "My solution was to connect the two outermost (of the row of four) wires from the (six pin) crankcase connector together, so that the lighting coils are operating in parallel, and connect the other remaining two non-ignition wires to a Rooster Booster 6volt reg-rect."
Question1- My left-hand (red) cable of the 4-row is connected to one side of my 6v reg/rect and the left-hand (black-common) of the 2-row to the other ac connection on reg/rect. My remaining 2 wires are: R/H of 4 row (purple) and R/H of 2row (yellow)- should I join purple to red and yellow to black, thus putting all ac through rectifier/regulator, and should the black common have anything joined with it??
Question 2- Can you tell me the part number to ensure I get correct LED bulb from P Goff?
My battery is a new Westco 6v AGM 13AH and the reg/rect is P Goff A Reg Six
Sorry to be a pain!
Regards, Pat H.

[AndyB]

Pat - I don't have the bike accessible to me until later (too many bikes - not enough garage space here!)

(Original text removed - see later post!)

Paul Goff's LED pilot bulb was:
T10 10MM Capless (Wedge) Without holder LDT10DW6V - you will probably need the correct holder for this bulb as I fitted it into a new headlight shell with a capless type fitting. I'm sure you will be able to find a similar LED with the correct fitting for your holder somewhere on this page.

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/GoffyDaytimeLights.htm

HTH

AndyB

[AndyB]

Pat - I've edited my previous post since when I inspected the bike, I realised that I had originally tried wiring the connector as described, but this did not work as expected!
The revised actual connector wiring on the bike is as per the attached diagram.

[John Wakefield]

Pat - I've edited my previous post since when I inspected the bike, I realised that I had originally tried wiring the connector as described, but this did not work as expected!
The revised actual connector wiring on the bike is as per the attached diagram.

Presumably on a 5 pin plug it would be wired as follows. The Blue & Green wires going to the ignition coils, & the regulator Paul Goff part No AREG6

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

[AndyB]

Electrickery

It seems there are a number of different connector pin-outs on the Villiers twins.

According to my copy of the Greeves Service Notes for the 25DB, the connector should be 6 pin, and I've attached a scan of a photocopy of the lighting diagram from there.

I've also attached a 'typical' wiring diagram which shows the internal wiring in addition to the general wiring diagram which I scanned from an original 'Villiers Mark 2T and Mark 3T Users Handbook and Spare Parts List'.

Maybe someone can find a similar diagram for the five-pin-out version?

Hopefully this will clarify rather than confuse!

AndyB

[AndyB]

Lighting Switch Part Number

I have been looking through the documentation that came with the pile of bits that is now my '58 Fleetwing Special. I found some hand written notes in the Villiers Parts Book referred to above. This suggests that the switch should be 31461A.

AndyB