Hi Comp Cylinder Heads for 2T and 3T engines

[greeves246]

Re VILLIERS SPECIFICATION SHEETS

i have typed it as it was written in the spec sheets i have a massive amount for
all villiers engines 8E to 3t sf no head part numbers

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222D Mk.3.T Invacar E11839 ENGINE SPROCKET (25T)
324.cc LTD C10915 Inlet Pipe 110038 chain 62 pitches
E10637 final drive sprocket (16.T)
V1716E main jet (180.cc)
V234B/LJ throttle cable (3'2" Outer)
Carbrettor S.25/2 With Large Air Filter.
Magneto. R138/A141.
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[IanCordes]

Hi John. That is interesting, because both my original workshop manual and also my 1960 parts list show the 2T and 3T as having the S22/2 carb. The manual shows the settings as you have shown for the S25:-
Needle taper 3 1/2
Needle no.3 groove
Slide no.3
Pilot 35
Main jet 180, on the 3T; 170 on the 2T, the only difference, which I didn't spot earlier.
Maybe they changed to the S25 later? Whatever, as you say, it is a better carb for the job.

Cheers. Ian

[greeves246]

more

2T863B engine had c11768 cylinder C11785 HEAD ?

[John Wakefield]

Hi John. That is interesting, because both my original workshop manual and also my 1960 parts list show the 2T and 3T as having the S22/2 carb. The manual shows the settings as you have shown for the S25:-
Needle taper 3 1/2
Needle no.3 groove
Slide no.3
Pilot 35
Main jet 180, on the 3T; 170 on the 2T, the only difference, which I didn't spot earlier.
Maybe they changed to the S25 later? Whatever, as you say, it is a better carb for the job.

Cheers. Ian

Ian
Having checked the engine appendix in Villiers Everybodies Engine by Carrick it appears that some manufacturers Cotton, DMW & Panther did specify an S22 carb on some of their 3T engined models. But the Greeves engine numbers 893B & 222D are specified as fitted with S25.

[IanCordes]

John. My books are Villiers ones, so the spec. shown is not to a specific bike manufacturer, which probably explains the difference. I don't know what my engine came from originally. It was with a basket case 25DC which I bought a few years back. It included 2 1/2 2T engines. I sold the kit' with one, and kept the remaining 1 1/2. It has a strange engine number, which I can't identify - PRO 369 58...any ideas?

Gary, you may have found the high compression head parts numbers, maybe?

[John Wakefield]

It has a strange engine number, which I can't identify - PRO 369 58...any ideas?

That does not appear to be a Villiers number, the nearest would be 369D a 9E fitted by Norman, clearly not that. Is it stamped on a Villiers plate or direct onto casting?

[IanCordes]

It is stamped on a Villiers plate in proper fashion, John, but I suppose anyone with a set of stamps can do that, as you can buy blank plates. I thought nothing of it until recently, when I did a bit of research, to find what the engine was originally fitted to, only to draw a blank, as you have.

[John Wakefield]

Two possibilities could be Prokart http://www.prokart.co.uk/ a Go Kart firm, but also, & more likely, Progress Chassis Company http://colinchapmanmuseum.org.uk/?page_id=175 who were involved with Colin Chapman in building the early Lotus chassis. Although I cant see that they actually made Go Karts they were supplied with 9E engines (160D) by Villiers.
Another possibility I suppose is that it could be a prototype.

[IanCordes]

That has got my interest now, John! It was in bog standard spec. when I got it, including S22 carb; although parts may have got mixed up.

Anyway, it is 324cc now. I have a spare incomplete S25 carb, which needs a top, slide, needle etc.

Back to the original thread, a set of HC heads would be nice.....

[IanCordes]

2T heads on ebay....

These have appeared on ebay. The mating faces are different to my heads, although the combustion chambers may be the same.

I forgot to mention, the seller said the only markings on them are '60'.

[John Wakefield]

The eBay ones do look to have larger combustion chambers & you only have sellers word they are 2T could be 3T. I would suggest for road use & all round performance you need to aim for around 8:1 for a 325. so you would need a combustion chamber capacity of 20cc. use a thin oil measured with a syringe.
Obviously you cant use 2T heads on a 3T without modification but you can open out the combustion chambers with rotary file, or a milling machine if you have one.
Standard 7.2:1 3T heads will have a combustion chamber capacity of 22cc

[greeves246]

W h collins truro

Picture of list supplied to WH COLLINS of TRURO by villliers

[John Wakefield]

Picture of list supplied to WH COLLINS of TRURO by villliers

The engine number on Ian's engine is not a standard Villiers configuration so those lists will not help.

[IanCordes]

That is good info John. I will set about measuring. Flushing oil should be just the job.

Interesting stuff you have there Gary. Trouble is, my engine number is a bit weird, so can't relate it to any list. Not that there can be many variations on that engine really, apart from heads, carb, maybe gear ratio's.
I don't think anyone had any luck with altering the ports on the twins, did they?
I did think that properly designed expansion chambers might be a way to up their oomph a bit, but would spoil the originality of a nice roadster. They would be ok on a special, though. There's a thought....

[dave higgins]

An accurate way to measure cyl head volume is to use a clear piece of perspex, drill two small holes in it, then with a thin smear of grease or silicone to seal the surface, place it on the cyl head face with the holes near centre, fit the spark plug you intend to use, then using an accurate medical grade buerette, fill with very thin oil based fluid, the air will expell through one hole whilst filling through the other.
No false height readings, due to the inaccuracy of the eye or the slightly off level position off the head whilst testing.........