1961 25DC Assistance required Please!!

[terryw]

Hello
I have recently purchased a 1961 25DC which runs ok but I am hoping to gradually improve it.
The first thing to try and rectify is a gearbox leak from the gear pedal spindle. On removing the pedal I see that the O ring appears damaged and there is no retaining washer or circlip fitted. I assume it is possible to replace the O ring but the problem is that the circlip groove is inboard of the boss face of the gearbox, if you put the washer on the shaft it's not possible to see the circlip groove.

I'm sure I have read of the same problem on the forum but can't remember the solution.
Tried searching but am unable to find the relevant posts.

Regards
Terry Clarke

[John Wakefield]

Hello
I have recently purchased a 1961 25DC which runs ok but I am hoping to gradually improve it.
The first thing to try and rectify is a gearbox leak from the gear pedal spindle. On removing the pedal I see that the O ring appears damaged and there is no retaining washer or circlip fitted. I assume it is possible to replace the O ring but the problem is that the circlip groove is inboard of the boss face of the gearbox, if you put the washer on the shaft it's not possible to see the circlip groove.

I'm sure I have read of the same problem on the forum but can't remember the solution.
Tried searching but am unable to find the relevant posts.

Regards
Terry Clarke

Here is the relevant page from the Villiers manual its the 4T one but gearbox is same. Assemble as diagram. No 28 Gear-change O ring followed by 29 Gear-change spindle washer, followed by 30 Gear-change spindle circlip
If it wont assemble as you say it looks like the Spindle bush (27) is too long or not fitted correctly, or there something wrongly assembled elsewhere with the gearchange spindle assy. (21)

[terryw]

Thanks John for your reply and assembly diagram, very much appreciated.

Been having another look today and find that I can pull the gear pedal spindle out from the gearbox but it springs back when I let go. If I could hold it in the out position it should be enough to get the washer and cir-clip on.

Do you think this is worth a try and has anyone out there had the same problem.

I will be away from home for the next few days but hope to pick up replies,not sure if I will have WI-FI available.

Regards
Terry Clarke

[John Wakefield]

Not sure as I have not changed the O ring myself. but I would have thought it OK if you can pull the gear change shaft out enough to get the washer & circlip on. But make sure its free to rotate freely with everything in place. According to the manual there are 2 grooves in the gear change spindle the circlip goes into the inner one ie furthest from splines

[fioand]

On changing mine I fitted the o ring, then the washer, and after putting the circlip up against the washer, applied some pressure to it with the tips of a pair of long nosed pliers.
This compressed the o ring slightly, allowing the circlip to spring into the groove. Having to compress the o ring slightly helps to improve the seal

[aa will]

o ring

i can confirm that the shaft seems to spring back into the case having changed many over the years , this is one of the times that your third hand comes in handy, one to hold shaft out one to push o ring and washer in to the case and the other to fit the circlip , will.

[Rob]

I've got the same problem with my Anglian, the oil certainly leaks if the bike is left leaning to the right! Apart from leaving the bike leaning to the left, the next thing I am going to try is making a new phosphor bronze bush as I have tried the o ring. I am told wear in this causes the leak. I have just obtained a piece of a boat propshaft which I am told by a learned toolmaker friend is admiralty bronze and better so will give that a try as a zero-cost option.

[Brian Catt]

Admiralty Bronze......sounds like a new colour to me....1 bucket yellow, 1 bucket silver and a few drops of red to taste!

[Colin Sparrow]

Isn't that what they used on the first of the QUB 380s...?

[terryw]

I thought I would up-date on replacing the gear pedal shaft O ring as this may help others.
First I found that two hands were required to pull the shaft out to expose the circlip groove leaving no way of pushing the circlip in to it's groove, I tried a clamp in the undercut between the two sets of splines to pull on, this left one hand free but the clamp and other hand made it difficult to manipulate the circlip into position. I tried for about two hours over three days, no success.
My wife suddenly said why not twist some plastic garden wire around the outer undercut in the shaft and wrap the other end around a screwdriver to make a T handle and she would then hold the shaft out to expose the circlip groove - this surely wouldn't work.
I tried the above with my wife pulling on the T bar leaving both my hands free, the circlip was in the groove in about 10 seconds.
Been out for a ride, gear change fine and up to now no oil leak, so thanks to club members for advice and my wife for her idea. Hope this might help someone.
Next job is to check points and timing, any advice much appreciated.
i.e. Is it better to take the heads off to find tdc and 3/16 before, and are the head gaskets re-usable?
I have noticed the condensers are not in their holders but appear to be next to the coils under the tank.

Regards
Terry Clarke

[John Wakefield]

Next job is to check points and timing, any advice much appreciated.
i.e. Is it better to take the heads off to find tdc and 3/16 before, and are the head gaskets re-usable?
I have noticed the condensers are not in their holders but appear to be next to the coils under the tank.

Regards
Terry Clarke

Glad you sorted circlip/O ring problem. As for timing, yes on a 2T with inclined spark plugs you need to take the heads off to accurately set piston height, or you could use a degree plate to set it if you know what the advance is in degrees.
As for head gaskets (solid aluminum) they can be re used but best to anneal first (heat up until a match stick leaves a burn mark, then quench in water)
No problem having condensers up with coils, keeps them cool & away from vibration. If they work ok leave them there.

[greeves246]

gear spindle

My 4t wet its self all over the floor with gear oil leaking from the gear shaft im going to get a gear shaft and cut a groove for a o ring !

I was also playing with boyer ignition or other to try and get over keep ajusting the points

gary

[John Wakefield]

Gear change O ring

My 4t wet its self all over the floor with gear oil leaking from the gear shaft im going to get a gear shaft and cut a groove for a o ring !

You dont need to do anything as drastic as that Garry, if a new, correct size O ring is fitted it will not leak. What you do need to check is that the bush supporting the gear change shaft is a good fit on shaft, as a worn one will put stress on the O ring & cause it to wear quickly. The shaft is hardened so a groove would need to be ground.

[Guest]

Electronic ignition for twins

My 4t wet its self all over the floor with gear oil leaking from the gear shaft im going to get a gear shaft and cut a groove for a o ring !

I was also playing with boyer ignition or other to try and get over keep ajusting the points

gary

Hi Gary, I would be interested to know how you get on with the electronic ignition.

Keith

[dave higgins]

I`ve never seen a gear selector shaft that is hardened.....!