New pattern Miller 3 position switch.

[Graham of Greasby]

Hi Fellas,
I'm re-building a 25DC Sportstwin and am trying to connect up a new (M.E.S.) wiring harness to a new 3 position main switch sourced from Villiers Svcs. The only problem is that the new switch's terminals are layed out as a mirror image of the original Miller switch and the inner linkages do not appear to tie up with the set-up on the original.
Now I've just spoken to VS about this and they said that no-one has reported any problems with the pattern 3 position switches.
has anyone else in Greevesland bought one of these switches recently and, if so, how did you connect it up to the wiring harness. BTW, the new colours on the harness do not replicate the original colour codes of the old wiring!

I will try to attach a diagram showing the differences between the original and the new switch.

[John Wakefield]

New pattern Miller 3 position switch

This is a common problem with these pattern replacement switches, they are not suitable for Greeves, at least Vehicle Wiring Products & The VMCC who also sell these list the bikes they WILL fit, mainly Vincent, Velocette, Rudge & some RE models. I am surprised that Villiers Services had not checked this out. In any case they are an expensive poorly made product (from China I suspect) There are also some being sold on eBay, again they are the wrong configeration so beware
Send it back for a full refund and source a good genuine Miller used one via the GRA.

Note: This subject has been posted before see http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...=Miller+switch
I included a diagram for the switch with the relevent connections marked.

[Graham of Greasby]

Graham of Greasby

Hi John,

Thank you for confirming that the VS sourced switch is not suitable for a Greeves wiring system.

I wonder why Steve Gollings says that he's not had any adverse feedback or complaints about these switches up 'til now? Anyway, I'll return it to VS and ask for a refund. Someone has to put a marker down!
Graham of Greasby.

[John Wakefield]

Miller switches

Hi John,

Thank you for confirming that the VS sourced switch is not suitable for a Greeves wiring system.

I wonder why Steve Gollings says that he's not had any adverse feedback or complaints about these switches up 'til now? Anyway, I'll return it to VS and ask for a refund. Someone has to put a marker down!
Graham of Greasby.

The thing is that for the Greeves application the switch needs to also connect extra lighting coils when head lamp is on. The Vincent & Rudge bikes have a dynamo where battery charging is controlled by a AVC (Automatic Voltage Control) unit so they only need basic switching for the lighting.
I am sure the switches being sold by VS & other outlets are quite capable of being wired to switch the headlamp & pilot lights on & off but of course do not have the contacts to switch the lighting/charging coils in when headlamp is on. Presumably why Steve Gollings has had no complaints about the switches is that the customers who have bought the switches have managed to wire them up to get the lights working but the additional coils are not being connected to compensate the high drain on the battery when the headlamp is switched on. As most owners never ride in the dark, they dont use the headlamp so dont realise the battery is not being charged. The charging without lights on will be ok, the first they notice they have a problem is when they are riding back late from a club night & the headlamp goes out after a few miles. I would think that most owners would then not connect the headight failure (sorry for pun) to the switch & would assume the battery had failed. I dont think Steve Gollings has given this much thought & has mearly bought in a lighting switch that outwardly looks like the original

[rlidsto2]

Villiers Service Miller switch

Graham,
Did you get your refund from Villiers?
I've just fallen into the same trap.
Cheers
Richard

[Graham of Greasby]

Villiers Service Miller Switch

Hi Richard,

Apologies for the delay in replying to your question, but I did get a full refund from Villiers Services for the 'wrong' Miller switch. I was unable to locate a correct switch anywhere so I salvaged my original one. The two holding studs had broken off the bakelite outer cover so I had to use a couple of narrow nylon screws and nuts to retain the cover to the rear of the switch. I polished up the terminals and the rotor in the switch as well.I recall it was rather fiddly!
By the way, I sourced two gel batteries from Tool Station; they sell a 6 volt 4.5 amp battery, so I lashed two together with Duck tape and wired them in parallel. They fit into the tool box/ battery carrier ok.
Another suggestion: I found that mounting the new small horn in the front of ther tool box deadened the sound of the horn significantly so I left the new one in its proper place and added another horn under the dual seat, connected to the loom. Hope this all helps with the project!

[John Wakefield]

6 volt batteries

It is not good practice to wire two batteries in parallel as one will discharge the other. Better to use one large one. I use a 6v 10amp like this http://www.hardwarexpress.co.uk/np10...FZIPtAodfzQAug
It fits the Greeves battery box on end with foam packing.

[rlidsto2]

Hi,
your switch issue was identical to mine. My studs also broke off. I actually tried to use the cover from the replacement switch but the build quality is so shocking the studs snapped off before the nuts where tight.

I sent the whole lot back to VS and got a refund.

They did send me some pictures of the modifications someone had made to make them work with the greeves. If I can find them I'll post them here to help others.

Horn wise I've rebuilt my old one and the battery I got from VS worked a treat.

Bike is up and running just waiting for the exhaust to be re-chromed.

Note. If anyone is thinking of using www.ashfordchroming.com/ don't!

They cost about 400% more than they should.

Cheers all.

[denboy -10]

miller headlamp switches

Hi i have just received a Miller headlamp switch part no WW11060 from Villier Services made by Wassell?
And i have not been able to wire it up.
Has anybody got any good advice please.
Regards denboy -10

[John Wakefield]

Miller lighting switch

Send it back & ask for your money back, these have already been discussed on this thread, see my previous comment, they are not configured for Greeves use & therefore not fit for purpose. If you Google the part number you will see they are for Vincent, Velocette, Rudge and some Royal Enfield models. I am shocked that Villiers Services are still continuing to sell these for Greeves use, Mr Gollings if you are reading this please take note.
To my knowledge there are no new suitable replacements so you will have to try & find a good second hand original one. An advert in LL & on here in For Sale & Wanted would be a good start

[Brian Catt]

John, if you don't tell them what bike it's for, of course they will sell you the switch! Your criticism can only hold water if VS sells a switch once you have told them what bike it's for.

[John Wakefield]

John, if you don't tell them what bike it's for, of course they will sell you the switch! Your criticism can only hold water if VS sells a switch once you have told them what bike it's for.

Presumably VS were advertising them suitable for Greeves, as I cant see the point of VS stocking the Miller switch as it is not suitable for Villiers engined bikes. I note also that it is not listed on their web site (they only list Lucas & Villiers switches) so presumably they no long stock the Miller one & the one that denboy received must have been old stock. If he had read the previous posts he would have seen that they were not suitable for Greeves.

[denboy -10]

miller headlamp switches for greeves

With reply to your remark about miller swiches. Villiers Services told me they could supply the right one for Greeves 25 dc sportsman.I had read comments about these switches on the Forum .I have returned switch do you know of one that will do the job ?
Regards denboy -10

[John Wakefield]

Other than the original Miller switch I dont know of another repro one, but a Lucas or Villiers one may be adaptable (the Villiers 4T workshop manual shows other types) never done it so cant really help. Best to try and find a good second hand original.
Surprised VS say they can supply the correct one when they supplied the wrong one in the first place, why not ask them to send the correct one on condition that if its no good they give you a full refund.

[John Wakefield]

Lucas alternative roadster lighting switch

This Lucas one would probably do the job as it has the toggle switch, to switch in the extra lighting coils. The fixing is different though so may need an adaptor plate making. http://www.feked.com/u39-light-switch.html