Originally posted by bryan
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25DC Trouble Shooting.
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25dc trouble shooting
Brian,my carb.is a s25/1,which John assures me is ok for the 2t although in that Roy Bacon book,which I'v had for many years,it says it should be a s22/2,which is also the same as that post you referred to in non Greeves engines.The 'set out' measurement is,as John also said, is 1.94 inches,how the devil can you measure that or could there be a simpler method like screw that grub screw all the way in then back out say 2 or 3 turns,which is a basic way of setting up some slow running mixture settings ?
John,I usually use that Comma oil,which you recommended ages ago but I had trouble with that as well,that's why I thought I'd try something else.I bought 7.28 litres of premium unleaded and the oil was Carlube 2 stroke xl ,at the same Tesco garage ,and approx.270m/l ,which is about 25-1 or just over-so why it should go straight to the bottom is a mystery.Anyway I will be pre mixing it in future.
I'll say one thing about these bikes,they are certainly not boring !
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Carb etc.
Hi Bryan,
The needle adjusting screw (V.786E) does exactly as you describe; screw down to weaken, upwards to richen/raise the needle, and the set-out (base setting with an unworn needle/main jet) can be measured with a vernier.
I think you're right probably right and your roadster may have originally come with S22 carbs, but I'm sure if that's what John advised it will be because the two carb types differed only in minor detail apart from bore size (often just choke/strangler arrangement) or something, but I will let him advise further if need be.
In the meantime, there is a little more info you may find helpful on this thread; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...ead.php?t=1188
Hope this helps,
Brian.
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Originally posted by bryan View PostBrian,my carb.is a s25/1,which John assures me is ok for the 2t although in that Roy Bacon book,which I'v had for many years,it says it should be a s22/2,which is also the same as that post you referred to in non Greeves engines.The 'set out' measurement is,as John also said, is 1.94 inches,how the devil can you measure that or could there be a simpler method like screw that grub screw all the way in then back out say 2 or 3 turns,which is a basic way of setting up some slow running mixture settings ?
John,I usually use that Comma oil,which you recommended ages ago but I had trouble with that as well,that's why I thought I'd try something else.I bought 7.28 litres of premium unleaded and the oil was Carlube 2 stroke xl ,at the same Tesco garage ,and approx.270m/l ,which is about 25-1 or just over-so why it should go straight to the bottom is a mystery.Anyway I will be pre mixing it in future.
I'll say one thing about these bikes,they are certainly not boring !Last edited by John Wakefield; 16/06/2012, 04:50 PM. Reason: Details on how to measure needle set out added
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25dc trouble shooting
Hi John & Brian,Thanks for all your comments but as always I have other questions and answers.I took the carb.off again yesterday and tried to measure the 1.94 inches,I presume the measurement is from the straight edge of the slide and not the curved one,well it was probably near enough correct but I thought I'd try a little adjustment so I unscrewed the grub screw out a couple of turns and nothing happened ie the distance was the same so I unscrewed the grub all the way out and just tipped the needle into my hand.There was nothing holding the needle in place,I expected a spring at the very least or more to the point the needle being enbeded in the grub screw so when it was screwed in or out the needle would go up or down-does all this make sense to you ,So is something missing or ? If anyone has a exploded drawing of the s25 carb.with the grub screw adjustment please could they make it available to me.I'v tried searching the web,villiers included and no luck so far.
Anyway after putting everything back in place and having a ride of 20 miles or so all seemed fine except perhaps a tad more vibration,although this smoothed out at 30 and 50 mph.,which is my limit for now.
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25dc trouble shooting
John & Brian,Just found a exploded drawing of the s25 at nametab engineering 01527 522266,with the correct needle,spring,collar and screw plus the correct main jet.Simon who I ordered from doesn't take credit cards but was more than willing to send the parts and I can send him a cheque on receipt-such trust in this day and age or am I just cynical !
Will report on results later.
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Villiers Info etc.
Hi Bryan,
Firstly, it sounds as though you might be missing a couple of parts in your carb-there should be a spring and collar under the needle. For more info see attached scan (S.19 and S.25 carb), specifically the following parts;
No. 9 - Needle adjusting screw (V.786E)
No. 10 - Throttle Spring (S.25 = V.107 x 8E)
No. 11 - Needle No. 3 1/2
No. 12 - Needle collar (V.787A)
No. 13 - Needle spring (V.1235E)
Incidently Bryan, I've already posted links to this kind of info (which includes this diagram, and many many others) already on the forum, in the 'Links and Resources' area.
Have a look at this thread; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...ead.php?t=2259 John Wood's excellent site should have everything anyone needs in the way of exploded drawings/part numbers etc for Villiers engines and carbs, and much more besides. One of his sites is dedicated to his publications, and the other specifically to Villiers parts and info. My thread will explain more.
To find Villiers engine/carb diagrams/info etc on John Wood's site, go to the 'Homepage', here; http://www.lortim.demon.co.uk/
Then, look for the link on the left of the page, where it says "All the Villiers technical stuff is at www.villiers.info" and click on that link, which will get you to here; http://www.villiers.info/ Look down the menu on the left, and click on 'Carbs', which will get you to the spares page for carbs. Finally, click on the link to 'Villiers Type 25' under 'Parts Lists and Diagrams', which will get you to the diagram and parts list you seek, here; http://www.isdm.co.uk/VI62/_VSF6.asp?ID=ZXF25&fun=F2
Hope this helps,
Brian.
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Villiers Information.
Originally posted by bryan View PostJohn & Brian,Just found a exploded drawing of the s25 at nametab engineering 01527 522266,with the correct needle,spring,collar and screw plus the correct main jet.Simon who I ordered from doesn't take credit cards but was more than willing to send the parts and I can send him a cheque on receipt-such trust in this day and age or am I just cynical !
Will report on results later.
Brian.
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25DC trouble shooting
Hi Bryan,
you have my sympathy!,as I have just completed a rebuild on my 25DB, and replaced the S22/2 carb, with an S25/3,(with jetting info kindly supplied by JW).
You are correct in assuming there should be a spring holding the needle in position, and,I would suppose, that without the spring,(which the needle passes thro'),it would tend to drop in the slide,resulting in a weak mixture.
My 2T, when fitted with the S22, nipped up a couple of times, and the pistons showed evidence of this, on the front and rear faces, (easily fixed with a fine oil stone), as someone mentioned in another thread, 2T's DO seem to like proper running in, after rebores etc,to minimise this happening.
For anyone who may be interested, my 2T,now seems to be running properly, having replaced the crank assy,(nice new centre seal,!),mains,crank seals, and with the flywheel re magnetised,(really nice,fat spark,now!)
It had been impossible to overcome the rich running,(fouled plugs after 10 miles),which became progressively worse,very quickly, after the rebuild, tho the engine started easily.I presume, the seals in the crank assy, being old,had hardened, and gave up quickly, when the engine was fired up again, after standing for 9 yrs!!
Good luck, to any other suffering 2T users out there.
Incidentally, in the new Villiers Book,Everyman's Engine,(?).is a comment that a few years ago, the Francis Barnett O/C commissioned production of a batch of Aluminium Barrels for 2T's,taking them up to approx 300cc.Has anybody heard howthe engines performed with these? I'd be interested to know.
All the best,
Les
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[QUOTE=Les Pilgrim;11347].
My 2T, when fitted with the S22, nipped up a couple of times, and the pistons showed evidence of this, on the front and rear faces, (easily fixed with a fine oil stone), as someone mentioned in another thread, 2T's DO seem to like proper running in, after rebores etc,to minimise this happening.
QUOTE]
I think siezing after a rebore is common with the 2T/3T. I think the main problem is that the modern day reborers bore them too tight & dont allow enough clearance. The old hands used to give them a few more thou on the bore size.
After a rebore we always put in a minimum of 500 miles at 30 mph to run them in. These days with modern engines running in seems a thing of the passed. Some of the restored bikes these days dont do 500miles a year.
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25dc trouble shooting
Nice bit of info.you all gave,really interesting about the 'nipping up',especially about the first 500 miles.Received carb. parts from Nametab eng. and fitted same with correct measurement of 48 mm and sprinted the bike up to 55-60 mph no problem,so hopefully I can concentrate on riding it now instead of fixing it.Thanks for all the help and 'I'll be back'-as Arnie would say if any other troubles erupt.
ps John,would the lack of a filter on the fuel tap,inside the tank,cause that oil straight to the bottom problem, cos mine is missing and if so where can I get one ?
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Progress!
Hi Bryan,
Good to hear that you're making some progress with your bike now, and that the info was helpful. I'll let John answer your query re fuel filter as it's addressed to him, but speaking of Arnie (!), you may find the following thread interesting if you haven't seen it before, in particular post #16; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...hp?t=32&page=2
I'm sure you will find some of the films interesting in that thread as well, but reading John-Boy's interesting post just goes to show what a small world it is sometimes!
I do hope you'll come back and post more about your bike soon, and let us all know how you're getting on with it. The Roadster lads are always interested to see new topics posted on their favoured machines (as are we all!), and remember that it doesn't always have to be a tech query.
How about telling us about a recent ride or event you attended on your Greeves, or perhaps share with us a little more about the history of your bike? Pictures are always welcome (we love pics!) too, and every Greeves seems to have a story or three to tell, as do their owners (or is that keepers?!) and it'd be great to hear some of yours. Have a look at what other members have posted in the various sections and I'm sure an idea will present itself it you get a bit stuck. Also, don't forget that older threads can be replied to as well, and will come up as a 'New Post' so everyone will see it.
Anyway Bryan, hope you can start to enjoy your Greeves a bit more now, and happy riding.
Brian.
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Petrol taps
Originally posted by bryan View Postps John,would the lack of a filter on the fuel tap,inside the tank,cause that oil straight to the bottom problem, cos mine is missing and if so where can I get one ?Last edited by John Wakefield; 21/06/2012, 06:26 PM.
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25dc trouble shooting
I did check out those 2 sites you mentioned John and although there were whole taps and 'in line' filters ,couldn't find any small gauze ones to fit in the tank but I did find what may be the very thing on a BMW site called 'Motor works' for under £2 so I'll look into that.By the way the tap is 1/4 inch thread isn't it ?
Brian, will post a smallish story on the thread you mentioned,maybe someone will have a answer.By the way longing to get out on the bike now but can you do anything about this weather !
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Petrol taps
Fit a new complete tap, not worth trying to fit a filter to an old one. Paul Goff has taps with filters like what you need, http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffypetroltaps.htm I think the thread is 1/8 BSP but not sure, best to measure it & phone Paul, he knows about Greeves requirements. Beware he can be a bit grumpy on the phone, dont ring him outside of working hours.
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