Electronic ignition systems

[Les Pilgrim]

Has anyone on this site, any experience of Electronic ignition systems, on a 2T unit,?.
I'd be interested to know of any suitable units available,manufacturer,cost, etc.
Also, what values in capacitance,(?terminology), should the condensers have, and is there a procedure for testing them?.
Any advice most greatefully accepted.
Les

[greeves246]

electronic ignition

HELLO I AM INTERSTED IN DEVELOPING ELECTRONIC IGNITION SEL GENERATING OR WITH SUPPLY BATTERY FED USING THE CASE KEY AS A SWITCH

THERE IS ELECTRONIC FOR ARIEL TWINS FOR A START AND

BOYER IS VERY HELPFULL IF YOU WRITE TO HIM I HAVE HE WAS KEEN TO HELP !
I WROTE TO PAZON THEY WERENT VERY HELPFULL
ARIEL ON EBAY

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAZON-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-ARIEL-LEADER-ARROW-TWIN-/200453475337?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2eabf54c09

SEAN HAWKER

http://www.hawkerelectrical.co.uk/

OR

http://www.pazon.com/

BOYER BRANSDEN

http://www.boyerbransden.com/

GARY

[John Wakefield]

Electronic ignition 2T

Les
You could also have a word with Pete Savage (Rex Caunt Racing)
although Pete makes a modern points conversion for the Villiers twins & singles I think he can also do electronic his number 01827 874015 or p.savage56@btinternet.com
Just a couple of things to be aware of
1) The electronic set up would preferably need to have individual adjustment for the two cylinders, some owners have had trouble with the points conversion where the points are fixed at 180 degrees apart. Fine if the crankshaft is dead true, but one or two owners have had problems where the timing was out on one cylinder due to the crank pins not being exactly 180 degrees opposite.
2) You may have to convert to battery ignition, hence a bit of wiring change

[156trials]

The problem here is that while a self generating ac/cdi system is quite feasible, most of these are intended for competition and have no lighting coils or output to charge a battery. If it is for competition use then contact Peter Houghton at Electrex, who is already making similar systems for Yam and Suz classic racers.

If you need to retain the stock 6v generator, then things will be a lot more difficult as I am not sure whether there are any DC electronic systems which will work on 6v? If its for comp use and will run total loss using a battery, then you simply need to make a mounting plate for 2x hall triggers, and a trigger wheel to go on the crank, and its sometimes possible to use modified parts from used car systems to put something like this together very cheaply.

Its also worth checking HPI ignitions who are in Belgium as they are very much into older bikes, and may have something which could be modified to work for this application.

[John Wakefield]

Good point there 156trials & one I had not considered. As most of the larger bikes these days can be converted to 12v then I suppose there is not much of a market for 6v versions. I think Les wants it for a road bike so the option to convert to 12v is not there unless you can rewind the Villiers generator coils to give 12v. Villiers did do a 12v system using the bulky Siba Dynastart but as this requires a different crankshaft (longer with extra bearings) then its not really an option. Personally a good points set up is all that is required on a road bike. The other option would be to retain the points & convert to 6v battery coil ignition. This can be done with an existing Villiers diagram & will give a better spark & maybe a better performance. One of our members is already doing this with a 25DC East Coaster.

I repeat here the link to the coil ignition conversion details by Bill Drummond

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~colinatkinson/mq26.htm

[Les Pilgrim]

Many thanks for the tips,Guys, and John is correct,the interest is for my road bike.I have one of Peter Savages points conversions,and very nice it is too, but I would have thought the Villiers ,"split points backplate assembly", would have enabled compensation to be made for any minor crank misalignments,with resulting TDC variations.?.
I have heard of people adapting chainsaw ignitions, for bike use over here,(NZ),but I believe these are mainly on single cylinder bikes, and I have yet to meet and chat with anyone who has done so
I've downloaded the Coil ignition article ,John, and I may end using that system.I'm just concerned that after 8 yrs plus,of not running, the rotor may have become demagnetised, and ineffective.We'll see, when I eventually,(in about 2 weeks), get to trying to start it!.
Thanks again, and i'll update,as and when i've made some progress.
Les

[Colin Sparrow]

I would have thought the Villiers ,"split points backplate assembly", would have enabled compensation to be made for any minor crank misalignments,with resulting TDC variations.?.

Isn't that entirely the point of it?

[greeves246]

I am going to try !

I am going to try and will try with a split rotor so you can ajust the timming indipendant of either cylinder (using a timming disk to check cylinder) although i imagine the webs are presssed accuratly as simon is a top engineer
i could mark the flywheel 180 degrees using a deviding head then with a strobe for checking the changes and the unit uses milliampres as well


gary

[Les Pilgrim]

My thoughts exactly,Colin.I just thought someone would have tried an electronic system on a 2T,and may have been prepared to impart some experience,for the benefit of others,but mostly me,to get to the point,(pun wholly intended!!).
Les

[John Wakefield]

Les
Kept in good order I think the points system on Villiers is as pretty reliable. Electronics may be good on modern vehicles where its designed in & reliable, but electronics on old bikes is not always a good thing. With points its easy to trace troubles, but with electronics & it fails there is not much you can do as a home mechanic. Unless your bike has starting & running problems I would leave it as it is. If it aint broke dont fix it.

[156trials]

In actual fact inductive ignition systems work very well indeed if they are properly maintained, and are certainly superior to the adapted chain saw AC- CDI types sold by PVL and Rex Caunt for instance.

Main reason the inductive types are superior is due to provision of a much longer duration spark, which is of particular benefit on older bikes, whose motors are often not as efficient as modern day types.

In reality all thats needed on bikes equipped with points are simple home built add on electronic boxes, which drastically reduce the amount of current running through the points, which then merely become a trigger to determine the firing point.

Boxes along these lines used to be easily available from an Aus web site for around £25, and with the addition of an LED to check timing, are something that would seem to be ideal for any points equipped bike, as reliability will be increased for very little cost, as well as being able to easily check timing.

[John Wakefield]

Good point (sorry for pun) 156trials & one that I forgot to mention, this system is used alot on classic cars. As you say cuts down on points errosion (the main problem with them) with the electronics giving a better spark.

[156trials]

Kettering ignitions uprated with a box to reduce current going through the points, are a great deal better than most electronic alternatives, and have the advantage that repair is possible in the event of problems.

[greeves246]

ignition

to be fitted to final drive side