Good morning.

[iansoady]

I've just joined the GRA as I am in the process of buying a Hawkstone (I think?) from Northern Ireland - bike transport to Redditch proving something of an issue but I'm sure I will get it resolved.



I've bought it as a project and hope to fit a Triumph twin engine but am not in a hurry to do that. The bike isn't registered so when it arrives I will need to use the good offices of the club to get that sorted out. I understand that it would be best to do that for the machine in its current form.

There will be plenty to do to sort out the rolling chassis so I expect I will be asking lots of questions.

I'm no stranger to rebuilding / restoring bikes as I've done several over the last years - ranging from a bare metal nut & bolt rebuild of an NSU Quickly, through a Francis Barnett Cruiser to my current 1952 Norton ES2 and most recently a cosmetic overhaul to a Honda XBR500 as I hated the elephantine tank. Most of my work has been restoring to standard spec however so I look forward to exercising the brain cells as well as the muscles with the Greeves project. Some pictures below.

[IanCordes]

Good morning Ian.

Welcome to the GRA. There is an Ian Soady who posts not infrequently on the Norton O.C. forum; are you one and the same?

The machine appears to be a Scottish trials model, rather than a Hawkstone scrambler, although one could more or less be converted to the other on those earlier models. What is the frame number; stamped on the N/S cast beam headstock? We can tell from that.

You are correct in saying you need to get the machine registered with DVLA in it's current state first. Once the Triumph engine is installed, it should be straightforward to notify them of a change of engine. If you install the Triumph motor and then attempt to register the machine, you are likely to open a can of worms best left shut!

Phil Hyde of this parish is our Tri-Greeves expert, so there is plenty of expertise on here to help you with your project.

One thing I have noticed is that you will be needing to install new front fork bushes. The current ones appear to have sagged, requiring replacement. The engine plates have been drastically cut away, requiring the prop stand to be fitted to the swinging arm instead; but you will need new plates for your Tri-Greeves (Grumph) project.

Good luck with it!

Ian C.

[John Wakefield]

Iansoady, what is the frame number which will confirm the model? Bushes available from https://www.britishbikes1970.com/parts/fork-parts

[iansoady]

Many thanks both. I don't yet have the bike so haven't checked the frame number - will text the seller to see if he can supply it. And thanks forthe tip re the fork bushings - all new stuff to me!

Yes that's me on the NOC forum - I've had Nortons for over 50 years with the odd lapse, but generally had one or more others as well. My plan for the Greeves is to set it up as essentially a road bike but I will see how things develop.

Re engine plates - I see there's someone selling these on ebay - is it someone from here?

[John Wakefield]

Phil Hyde does Tri Greeves engine plates no doubt he will be along to give you details

[iansoady]

Thanks, will contact him - he seems to be the resident guru. By the way, regarding front fork bushes - I take it that it's the angle of the leading link that indicates that these are past their best? I checked out the link for these - not cheap are they? But obviously if they're needed.....

[John Wakefield]

Distance between damper mounting bolts with no load should be 11.50 inches or 11.625 inches for TC models

[IanCordes]

Hi Ian.

Do make sure that the Greeves has a valid frame number. Can I suggest you get the vendor to send you a clear photo of it. If you then post it, John W, can tell you what it is, provided the number is a genuine one. If not, you will never get it registered.

The supply of fork bushes dried up some while back, and only by the determined efforts of British Bikes 1970, who commissioned the manufacture of a batch at very great expense, do we have a resumption of supply. They come in 2 shore ratings, 45 for trials and 50 for scrambles, roadsters and racers.

Regards

Ian C.

[iansoady]

Thanks Ian, have asked him for the number.

[iansoady]

Hi Ian.

Got a photo of the frame number - 8771 /25SA. According to Colin's book this makes it a Hawkstone twin? Quite rare I think, although of course now fitted with what looks like a 9E engine.

[John Wakefield]

Yes Ian a very rare 25SA twin built in 1958 and 1959 only. Only 9 survivors known for 1958 and 6 for 1959. The one in question is a 1958 frame. Not successful in the day but collectors items now. Shame to make it into a Tri Greeves but re fit a 2T engine with a 25TA trials exhaust system (as made it had short open pipes with no silencers) and use it as a road/trail bike. There were even fewer 25TA 'Scottish' trials bikes only 2 known survivors with one restored one 8652/25TA regd 579UYM (see pic attached)

[John Wakefield]

Here is a pic of 8761/25SA (USK622) with road going pipes and silencers

[iansoady]

Thanks John. But I'm not really a 2 stroke fan...... I did rebuild an Ariel Arrow some years ago and more recently the FB Cruiser although that was a hankering back to my first bike (a Plover) and was a mistake. But an interesting project.

Of course I will not make any irreversible changes so that in the fullness of time when I shuffle off the mortal someone could do as you suggest.

[IanCordes]

Hi Ian. I missed your post when you revealed the frame number; just spotted it. I do have to concur with JW. It would be a great shame to convert such a rare machine into a Grumph. There really were so few built, as he said. You could fit a 3T engine, not quite correct, but basically a bored-out 2T, if you wanted a bit more grunt, and they look identical . TBH, by the time you factor in the extra weight of a Triumph 21 engine, the performance wouldn't be much different. I have a 3T engine in my TA ISDT replica, and they go very well.

Ian C.

[iansoady]

Thanks Ian. If it had its original engine then I would take the point and not be considering changing. But as it has a 9E installed - which I'm told is from something like a Bond Minicar - it's not an original machine. In any case I won't be making any irreversible changes. I appreciate that I may be on a hiding to nothing but need a project to keep the little grey cells active - not to mention the spanners!