New member

[GrenNeale]

Hi, I am Gren Neale and have a great interest in a Greeves roadsters. I passed my test many years ago on a Greeves 2t 505WTE and then did many miles in my youth on a later model 4T DBV507C. I now have a 20dc 197single and a 1963 roadster that I have just fitted with an electric start 3t motor. Having electrical problems at the moment but hopefully will get there eventually.

[Rob]

Gren - First of all, welcome to the Club and I trust you will find your membership useful.

I have upgraded your forum access to 'GRA Member'.

Regarding your electrical problem, the archive contains various circuit diagrams should you ever need one.

Once again, welcome aboard!

Rob

[John Wakefield]

3T Siba Dynastart

The 3T with Siba Dynastart was not to my knowledge ever fitted to solo motorcycles. It came in two forms the 3T-SK (non reversing) & 3T-SRK (electric reverse using a second set of contact breakers) It was also available along with the 2T with fan cooling.
It would have been used for 3 wheeler & micro car applications, I believe the Meadows Frisky had the 3T-SRK engine. Ambassador fitted the 2T-SK to their Electra 75 model but it was not too successful owing to insufficient battery capacity. In a three wheeler or car application a large car size battery could be carried, but back in the 1960's there were no small high capacity batteries as fitted to modern bikes.
Greeves did produce some police (DF) models using the 4T-SK engine & the 34A-SK single with a Siba Dynastart but not sure if they had the starter part active & merely used the unit to provide 12volts for the police radio.

[John Pattinson]

3t Dynastart

3T engines with Dynastart were fitted to Panthers in the 60s, they were usually red with large hubs and tele forks from the 600 model...John P.

[John Wakefield]

3T engines with Dynastart were fitted to Panthers in the 60s, they were usually red with large hubs and tele forks from the 600 model...John P.

Quite correct there John, thanks for mentioning it. Looked it up in Villiers Singles & Twins, it was the Panther 35 which gained electric starting (3T-SK) in late 65 with production ending in late 68.

[GrenNeale]

Re welcome.

Thanks for the welcome Rob. I am sure my membership will be well worthwhile. In relation to the 3t electric start I think the engine originally came from a Bond mini car. I had no problems for the first 30 miles but soon after the battery became extremely hot and on investigation the middle coil from the aluminium siba start had burnt out. I believe this controls the voltage and has obviously failed causing the battery to be overcharged and destroyed. I could perhaps have it repaired or renewed I have found various alternatives online but cannot decide which way to go at the moment. I am still not sure why it failed. It was previously fitted to a Francis Barnett and it carried a huge battery in a box on the rear carrier. I fitted a 5amp battery in the Greeves tool box that seemed to work fine at first.

[John Wakefield]

Thanks for the welcome Rob. I am sure my membership will be well worthwhile. In relation to the 3t electric start I think the engine originally came from a Bond mini car. I had no problems for the first 30 miles but soon after the battery became extremely hot and on investigation the middle coil from the aluminium siba start had burnt out. I believe this controls the voltage and has obviously failed causing the battery to be overcharged and destroyed. I could perhaps have it repaired or renewed I have found various alternatives online but cannot decide which way to go at the moment. I am still not sure why it failed. It was previously fitted to a Francis Barnett and it carried a huge battery in a box on the rear carrier. I fitted a 5amp battery in the Greeves tool box that seemed to work fine at first.

I assume you mean the coil in the control box bolted to engine casing rather than a coil in the actual Dynastart. I also assume you are not using the electric starter as a 5amp hour battery would not be sufficient to work the starter, you would need a 12 to 14 ah battery. Hence why not many solo motorcycles were fitted with the Dynastart engine. The later Bond Minicar Mark G was fitted with a 250cc 4T with Dynastart but I suppose someone may have retrofitted a 3T to get a bit more bottom end power, but to my knowledge Bond did not fit the 3T. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_Mi...1.E2.80.931966

[John Pattinson]

Dynastart

Sorry to correct you again but Norman Blakemore's bike was a modded 24DF with a single cylinder engine not a twin. He has also fitted Banana forks and intends to ride it in some vintage touring events as trials has been put on the back burner! John P.

[GrenNeale]

Dynastart.

John, I have checked the battery that was "fried" and it is a 6ah not 5ah. I had no problems initially with the system. It started instantly. It is 12 volt by the way. I cannot understand why the bike it came from had a huge battery that obviously would not fit in the Greeves battery/tool box. It was as if a large battery had to be fitted but I found that the smaller 6ah was fine.

[John Pattinson]

Dynastart

My Greeves 250 single 24DF starts ok with a 7ah battery. A twin is easier to turn over than a single so stop worrying and enjoy, if it won't go kick it!...John P.

[GrenNeale]

What battery do you use John? What size ie does it fit in the Greeves tool box/battery case?

[John Wakefield]

Solid state Dynastart regulator

This company Classic Dynamo Regulator Conversions can supply a solid state replacement for the old electro mechanical starter & voltage control units for the Siba Dynastart for £139.95 fitted or £117.95 to fit yourself.

http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/siba-and-bosch-dynastarts.php

[John Pattinson]

Dynastart

That is the problem for you because my 24DF has a huge battery box and fibre glass side panels. If you measure the size of your toolbox limits in mm then look in Screwfix catalogue for alarm batteries you may find a suitable battery. These batteries are sealed and work fine on bikes. I have a 7ah on my Triumph and so far so good 3 years...John P.

[John Wakefield]

Sealed lead acid batteries - beware

That is the problem for you because my 24DF has a huge battery box and fibre glass side panels. If you measure the size of your toolbox limits in mm then look in Screwfix catalogue for alarm batteries you may find a suitable battery. These batteries are sealed and work fine on bikes. I have a 7ah on my Triumph and so far so good 3 years...John P.

John the sealed lead acid batteries sold by Screwfix (and other sources) are not suitable for the high discharge required by electric starters, they are primarily designed to be used for low current applications such as burglar alarms/ emergency lighting etc, & should also be charged with a constant current charger. Whilst it is ok to use them on non electric start bikes (I use one on my 25DC) they do not like excessive voltage of current & if charged at more than 14.8 volts (for 12 volt system) or 7.4 volts (for 6 volt system) will over heat & in extream cases explode. The trouble with the Villiers/Miller/Siba electrics is that the charging voltage & current is not precisely controlled. The larger the battery the better its ability to absorb over charging. On my bike it overcharges with no lights on so I switch on the pilot light or headlight to reduce charging in daylight. Not a bad idea for safety anyway.

[Stuart Baskill]

John the sealed lead acid batteries sold by Screwfix (and other sources) are not suitable for the high discharge required by electric starters, they are primarily designed to be used for low current applications such as burglar alarms/ emergency lighting etc, & should also be charged with a constant current charger. Whilst it is ok to use them on non electric start bikes (I use one on my 25DC) they do not like excessive voltage of current & if charged at more than 14.8 volts (for 12 volt system) or 7.4 volts (for 6 volt system) will over heat & in extream cases explode. The trouble with the Villiers/Miller/Siba electrics is that the charging voltage & current is not precisely controlled. The larger the battery the better its ability to absorb over charging. On my bike it overcharges with no lights on so I switch on the pilot light or headlight to reduce charging in daylight. Not a bad idea for safety anyway.

Sealed batteries should only be charged on a constant VOLTAGE charger not a constant current charger.We had 24ampere hour sealed batteries when I worked