Andrew & new from Johns Island, South Carolina

[Andrew McNeice]

Hi,

I have a Greeves Griffon made 10/3/72 on frame #61 NC 274 with Engine #PGPE 4161 & Gearbox #GBA 1642. I have jammed the clutch and whilst I wait for a new unit to come from Greeves UK, I'd like to ask about the removal of the gear spindle. When I bought the bike the gear lever was welded to the gear spindle, a problem which I never addressed. Now, with the clutch issue I've also ordered the two new parts required so I can repair the gear change bit. As I am not very technical I have a local pal who is(?) to help me but he has never worked on a Greeves! So, even before we start to replace the clutch, to fix the gear bit can we simply pull the out the old spindle and re-insert the new one? Thanks.

Andrew

[Bearingman]

Hi,

I have a Greeves Griffon made 10/3/72 on frame #61 NC 274 with Engine #PGPE 4161 & Gearbox #GBA 1642. I have jammed the clutch and whilst I wait for a new unit to come from Greeves UK, I'd like to ask about the removal of the gear spindle. When I bought the bike the gear lever was welded to the gear spindle, a problem which I never addressed. Now, with the clutch issue I've also ordered the two new parts required so I can repair the gear change bit. As I am not very technical I have a local pal who is(?) to help me but he has never worked on a Greeves! So, even before we start to replace the clutch, to fix the gear bit can we simply pull the out the old spindle and re-insert the new one? Thanks.

Andrew

Welcome Andrew,

The model you have is a Griffon Enduro, which came with lights and a few other gadgets for competing in Enduros.

Here's the deal on your shift shaft. Basically you'll have to strip the box down to do it right. The spline shaft is welded on to the mechanism that works the shift plate up and down.

You can do the fix in a couple-three ways. You can purchase the complete shift shaft assembly ( I think you already did ) or you can do what everyone else did in the day by drilling a hole through the shifter shaft and shifter and install a roll pin...this method of course is very Mickey Mouse, but it gets you out riding in a pinch...or this way...

Purchase a short shift shaft from a BSA B50 (I think) which is the same as your Griffon. You'll have to cut off the old shaft and re-weld on the new piece.

While you're at it, replace the lay shaft needle bearing with a new one or better yet, a flanged bronze bushing from the earlier Challenger models. I'll need to look up the part number for you if you're interested...always check for cracks in the case around were the bearing seats.

A story to tell...When new Greeves owner Brian Gilroy came over to visit Nick Nicholson, Nick took him to the backroom of his shop. Nick had neatly lined up all the broken Griffon G/B's on the floor....Nick politely ask Mr. Gilroy..."what are you going to do do to fix this?"

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Kenny Sykes
USA

[druid]

Oi! Bearing Man,

Using a roll pin is not a Mickey Mouse fix!

I have repaired both Griffon and BSA gear lever shafts using roll pins with no problems.

I bore the new shaft and turn down the o/d of the old shaft with the mechanism on so that I get a 003" interference fit, press together and then cross drill and put in a roll pin.

Using a torque wrench I found that you needed to apply a foot pressure of 180lbs before the pin sheared. If you need to apply that sort of pressure you have serious problems with your box. It's best if you can get the shafts concentric though.

Kenny is correct that there are a few ways to skin the cat. Replacement shafts (no mechanism just splined) can be obtained through Kidderminster motorcycles.

Druid

[Bearingman]

Oi! Bearing Man,

Using a roll pin is not a Mickey Mouse fix!

I have repaired both Griffon and BSA gear lever shafts using roll pins with no problems.

I bore the new shaft and turn down the o/d of the old shaft with the mechanism on so that I get a 003" interference fit, press together and then cross drill and put in a roll pin.

Using a torque wrench I found that you needed to apply a foot pressure of 180lbs before the pin sheared. If you need to apply that sort of pressure you have serious problems with your box. It's best if you can get the shafts concentric though.

Kenny is correct that there are a few ways to skin the cat. Replacement shafts (no mechanism just splined) can be obtained through Kidderminster motorcycles.

Druid

Druid,

I always keep a few spares just in case!

I lost a roll pin at a race last season in the first moto.

I forgot to mention to Andrew...replace the bushing in the outer cover as well, so that dang inner seal won't leak...as much!

Kenny

[Andrew McNeice]

Andrew and his gear box etc

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the info to fix my gear shift issue. I think I may be best to replace the clutch first and see how it looks from the clutch side of the gear box. I agree without knowing what I'm doing - drill, roller pin and new bushing looks the way to go. Yes please Kenny the part # would be great for the bushing.

So I have an Enduro Griffon 380 well I didn't know that! Reading some of the posts I fall into the a) ebay buyer slot. b) someone who always wanted a Greeves (not much use growing up in Partick, Glasgow) c) waited until he was 63 & comfortable. I bought the bike last year for US$650.- running and complete albeit a bit shabby on the surface from sand racing. The bike is all original except for the headlight which came from a Tiger Club. Although a pig to start the bike ran fine until three weeks ago when I jammed the clutch. Too much bump starting!

As I only ride sand and wood trails where we live I have removed the lights.
So, if anyone is looking for a US style rear light/plate holder (not busted) and a Tiger Club headlight let me know.

I'll get back once the clutch arrives and let you know how it goes.

Andrew

[Bearingman]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the info to fix my gear shift issue. I think I may be best to replace the clutch first and see how it looks from the clutch side of the gear box. I agree without knowing what I'm doing - drill, roller pin and new bushing looks the way to go. Yes please Kenny the part # would be great for the bushing.

So I have an Enduro Griffon 380 well I didn't know that! Reading some of the posts I fall into the a) ebay buyer slot. b) someone who always wanted a Greeves (not much use growing up in Partick, Glasgow) c) waited until he was 63 & comfortable. I bought the bike last year for US$650.- running and complete albeit a bit shabby on the surface from sand racing. The bike is all original except for the headlight which came from a Tiger Club. Although a pig to start the bike ran fine until three weeks ago when I jammed the clutch. Too much bump starting!

As I only ride sand and wood trails where we live I have removed the lights.
So, if anyone is looking for a US style rear light/plate holder (not busted) and a Tiger Club headlight let me know.

I'll get back once the clutch arrives and let you know how it goes.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Real quick...What do you mean you jammed the clutch? Is the motor completely locked? The Griffon clutch is pretty strong.

Regards,
Kenny Sykes

[Andrew McNeice]

Andrew Clutch problem

Hello Kenny,

When bump starting the bike and having got it started, I then could not dis-engage whatever gear I was in when pulling back on the clutch lever. Pulling on the clutch lever still does nothing at all. I checked that the clutch cable was still attached by looking behind a dirty yellow plastic bung and it was, so just assumed I'd stuck the clutch plates together.

Andrew

[Colin Sparrow]

If the clutch lever feels a bit loose it may be that the clutch centre nut is coming undone?

[Bearingman]

If the clutch lever feels a bit loose it may be that the clutch centre nut is coming undone?

Hi Colin!

That's what I'm guessing too...or an inner primary bolt backed out and jammed things up? I just can't figure he would need an entire clutch.

Something ain't right here...or maybe the clutch adjuster attached to the clutch itself came loose...but if the nut or the adjuster backed off, the lever would have very little or no tension at all like you say Colin.

Andrew do you have the primary cover off?

If you have torn it down, did you remove the 2 clutch actuator rods going through the main shaft? Did you remember to put the small roller or ball in between the two rods?

Kenny Sykes

[greeves246]

is there 3 rollers between the push rods ? i thought there was ?
alsoi had that problem on my griffon and drilled and tapped a grub screw
in line half in the chaft and half in the lever this worked well

gearboxes and clutches are a massive weakness on griffons if not set up right
acording to dave who built the griffons the washer behind the clutch can break as there too hard (hardenend) and had to be ground bespoke fitting to each bike

250 griffon a good bike !
kennys advice is sound

gary

[Andrew McNeice]

Andrew Clutch

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the additional info. I can pull in on the clutch lever and get cable movement but no release to neutal when in gear, or any change of gear up or down. I have the oil drained out, all of the screws on the primary cover are loose and I'm ready to take the clutch out this weekend. I'll print out all of your comments and will check them n order as I work further inside.

I know, I know, I should have started and first found out what is wrong rather than just order everything new, but that's me! Best case I'll have spare prts - worst case I'll need everything and more!

Kenny thanks for the nod re. putting a small roller or ball between the clutch actuator rods.

Gary thanks all noted and just to let you know my Griffon is a 380cc Enduro.

Colin I hope you are right and it's something simple. Like me simple!

regards Andrew

[greeves246]

Dont forget the little o ring on the bottom stud when you bolt the gearbox to the engine or all your oil will leak out (i found out the hard way lol )
the cover to the gearbox has a machined diameter to allow for it to crush up against the crankcase lug !.

like u say spares are handy ! :-) clutches are at a premium

the griffons have a very mild powerband fun to ride ! not like my tm 400 cyclone 1971 (its eveil).

gary gwillam aka greeves246