Searching for an MCS Owner

[JJ66]

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help me? I have some important documentation for a Greeves MCS, chassis number 24MCS115. I would love to know if the bike still survives, and if it is out there please get in touch.

Thanks, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

I have looked on the 24MCS survivors list but there is no entry for 115, of course the bike may be around somewhere. It may have been an exported bike as some in that batch with nearby numbers went to USA. As a matter of interest what sort of documentation do you have? Does it give a clue to where it may be?

[JJ66]

I have looked on the 24MCS survivors list but there is no entry for 115, of course the bike may be around somewhere. It may have been an exported bike as some in that batch with nearby numbers went to USA. As a matter of interest what sort of documentation do you have? Does it give a clue to where it may be?

Hi John,

Thanks for coming back to me. The bike definitely existed in the UK, in Cumbria to be specific, because the documentation I have is the log book! I hope the frame is out there somewhere, it would be good to repatriate it.

Thanks, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

What is the reg No to see if its taxed on DVLA site?

[JJ66]

What is the reg No to see if its taxed on DVLA site?

Hi John,

The Reg No. is LJM 22K and it was registered in September '71, which is clearly a good few years after it was made as it is a 1962 model. You won't find any tax info on the bike because I have owned the title to it since ~1982, and it has not been on the road. I have the correct 34A square barreled motor for it but not the frame!! Argghh! Thats why I would like to find it..

Thanks again, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

The number is on DVLA not taxed for road use but last V5c issued 24/10/16
Vehicle Details

Vehicle make GREAVES
Date of first registration September 1971
Year of manufacture 1971
Cylinder capacity 250 cc CO₂ emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Euro status Not available Real
Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker No
Vehicle status Not taxed for on road use
Vehicle colour BLUE
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan 2 WHEEL
Revenue weight Not available
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 24 October 2016

How come the frame got separated from the engine?

[JJ66]

Hi John,

Yes that's right, all good and understood already. The October 2016 date is when I updated the logbook from V5 to V5C. I even have the old green logbook from pre-V5 days. The story behind this is a long one, and an interesting one, but perhaps too long for this message board. To try and summarise quickly, I think the bike was a victim of engine/frame swapping as happened back in those days. The chap I bought it off had loads of bikes and engines etc and I bought the bike in good faith as an MCS, but it turned out to be a 24MX2 - It was a good few years after buying the bike that I realised the frame number was not the same as that on the log book! Therefore I had the logbook and the engine but not the frame. I sold the MX2 a few years back and it is being restored, but I have always had the other remains of the MCS. I am having a bit of a clear out due to a house move and so it has fueled my interest to try and find the original MCS frame. I think you asked where I was located: South Herefordshire near Ross on Wye.

Regards, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

Looking at what happened I would suggest that the original frame 24MCS115 may have broken and a previous owner acquired another frame all be it from an MX2. If thats the case the frame is unlikely to turn up. As you have all the paperwork in your name you could possibly find an un-stamped alloy beam (they are about) and then build up another MCS frame. I dont see an issue with that but please dont be temped to re stamp an existing frame.

[JJ66]

Looking at what happened I would suggest that the original frame 24MCS115 may have broken and a previous owner acquired another frame all be it from an MX2. If thats the case the frame is unlikely to turn up. As you have all the paperwork in your name you could possibly find an un-stamped alloy beam (they are about) and then build up another MCS frame. I dont see an issue with that but please dont be temped to re stamp an existing frame.

Hi John,

Yes, indeed, that is a plausible answer and perhaps highly likely. The MX2 frame clearly ran under the MCS identity for many years judging by the patina of the number plate, mud guards and all the other bits. The fact that I was very keen to sell the rolling chassis as an MX2, and to be restored as an MX2 (which is now happening), demonstrates my desire to keep things original and true/proper. I would not consider re-stamping by any means, hence trying one last time to find the frame. If such a thing as an unstamped alloy beam was available then I would be very keen to look into that, if ever you hear of anyone with such an item then do please put me in touch, it would be great to get an MCS back into circulation, particularly as I have the right motor for it. I also have 6 or more other motors ranging from 9E to 37A which I must sort out and find new homes for.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Best Regards, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

Unstamped beams do come up occasionally on eBay etc. I think the factory sold them like that as replacements. I have listed the bike on Survivors List so if frame does turn up I will give you a shout.

[JJ66]

Brilliant, thank you John!!

[johnrunnacles]

Pedantically speaking, of course, the MX2 (a Challenger designation) was quite a different bike to the 24MCS which was Hawkstone based. The frames were significantly different too, that of the MX2 being one-piece, and that of the MCS being a bolted-up construction of sub-frames. Moreover, the MX2 frame was built to take the Greeves engine, and had no engine cradle as such, whereas the MCS frame had the Villiers engine (with the first earlier alloy barrel) bolted into a cradle of steel plates. But I expect you knew all that, anyway?
Can it be that there has been some confusion along the way between the 24MCS/2 and the MX2 designations, perhaps?

Welcome to the Forum, by the way, Jonathan.

John R

[JJ66]

Pedantically speaking, of course, the MX2 (a Challenger designation) was quite a different bike to the 24MCS which was Hawkstone based. The frames were significantly different too, that of the MX2 being one-piece, and that of the MCS being a bolted-up construction of sub-frames. Moreover, the MX2 frame was built to take the Greeves engine, and had no engine cradle as such, whereas the MCS frame had the Villiers engine (with the first earlier alloy barrel) bolted into a cradle of steel plates. But I expect you knew all that, anyway?
Can it be that there has been some confusion along the way between the 24MCS/2 and the MX2 designations, perhaps?

Welcome to the Forum, by the way, Jonathan.

John R

Hi John, Indeed it was a very different bike, but at the tender age of 13 (when I bought it) I was not to know, to me it was a Greeves, that was it!! The discovery of what it really was only started when I was given the Villiers Singles and Twins book a few years later (remember when we had to rely on books, pre-internet??) and could look at pictures of different Greeves models, only then did I realise that it was an MX series. The Frame number is 24MX256, so I think that is an MX2. I will attach a few pics of how it looked when I had it just before it was sold to a nice chap in South Wales called Paul who is now restoring it to original MX2 specification, making new engine plates etc. I believe he has the bones of the correct challenger engine to go in it. When viewing the pictures, keep in mind that I got this bike running as a 13/14 year old, the engine plates were a real mess and were scrapped, so what you see in the pictures is what I made with a hacksaw, files and my trusty arc welder! (I had a visionary Dad who bought me an arc welder for my 10th birthday :-)). I ran the bike in Pre-65 Trials with a 31A engine form a Bond Minicar, hence the butchered primary chain cover but its interesting that I've noticed that this mod has been done by others over the years, common sense I guess. Note also that the 24MX doesn't have the correct wheels in the picture but the new owner has sourced correct ones now I believe.

Cheers, Jonathan

[JJ66]

Pedantically speaking, of course, the MX2 (a Challenger designation) was quite a different bike to the 24MCS which was Hawkstone based. The frames were significantly different too, that of the MX2 being one-piece, and that of the MCS being a bolted-up construction of sub-frames. Moreover, the MX2 frame was built to take the Greeves engine, and had no engine cradle as such, whereas the MCS frame had the Villiers engine (with the first earlier alloy barrel) bolted into a cradle of steel plates. But I expect you knew all that, anyway?
Can it be that there has been some confusion along the way between the 24MCS/2 and the MX2 designations, perhaps?

Welcome to the Forum, by the way, Jonathan.

John R

Hi John,

Apologies I didn't answer all points. No, I don't think there has been any confusion between the two bikes, the original MCS obviously existed as I have the log book and the numbers are clear, and the frame number on the MX is clear. It is perhaps as John Wakefield suggested that the original MCS was damaged and the MX was seen as a handy replacement! The MCS/MX has clearly had an interesting past as I have record that it was fitted with a 2T motor, and given the real state of the engine mountings in the MX when I bought it then I can well believe that a number of different motors had been in it and that it may have been called to service to replace the original MCS. An interesting tale indeed!! I can still remember the place I bought it from on the shores of Ullswater, it was a lovely old building that had been used as a Cheshire Home, and one of the outbuildings had all these old bike bits in. I had a number of engines (Bantam, Triumph Tina, AMC) thrown in with the Greeves and it set me up for bits to tinker with for a good while!

Regards, Jonathan

[John Wakefield]

The pics dont show by the way just says 'vBulletin'