1960 24TCS Model wheels & rear sprocket..

[JohnAli]

Picked up a "Scottish" 1960 24TCS with original 31A engine fitted.

Rear wheel fitted is WM3-18, offset is 1/4 inch on brake drum side and fitted with 3.50 x 18 tyre...........does this sound right as all the shorter spokes on the brake drum side are bowed ??????

Rear wheel also fitted with 56 tooth sprocket.....is this correct???

Front wheel fitted is 1.6 x 21, offset is 15/16 inch on brake drum side and fitted with 2.75 x 21 tyre..........looks right with spokes all straight!

Any info appreciated.

Cheers, John.

[John Wakefield]

John. Cant help with your query but if you give the frame number I will see if there is any history of the bike on the Survivors List. I can say that original engine would have been a 32A and rear tyre should be 4.00 x 18. You dont say where you are from, so I assume UK.

[JohnAli]

John. Cant help with your query but if you give the frame number I will see if there is any history of the bike on the Survivors List. I can say that original engine would have been a 32A and rear tyre should be 4.00 x 18. You dont say where you are from, so I assume UK.

Hi, located in Scotland...Letter from "Greeves riders association GB" came with bike confirming it is a 1960 24TCS Trials model (Frame no 60/1520) and fitted with original engine (31A) and was sold to a dealer in Oxted, Surrey.

Never worked on a Villiers/Greeves machine so learning as I go along......single sided hub on wheels which is correct but something aint right when spokes are bowed.

Cheers, John.

[Colin Sparrow]

The original engine was a 32A, number 863B 802

[John Wakefield]

A new one on the Survivors List so no previous info, must have been hiding away in a shed!! What condition is the bike? ie barn find, runner but unrestored or fully restored. You dont say if its road registered but Colin is the club GRA Authentication Officer and can help you with registration if needed.

[IanCordes]

John. The original standard fit rear sprocket was a 54 tooth, but they were often changed to larger ones to lower the gearing, Front rim WM1 x 21. I don't know how you are measuring the offset, but the rims should be centralised between the spoke flanges.

Ian C.

[JohnAli]

John. The original standard fit rear sprocket was a 54 tooth, but they were often changed to larger ones to lower the gearing, Front rim WM1 x 21. I don't know how you are measuring the offset, but the rims should be centralised between the spoke flanges.

Ian C.

Straight edge across brake drum and measure distance between straight edge and wheel rim. That's the way I did my BSA wheels.
Are you saying no offset then?

Cheers, John.

[JohnAli]

A new one on the Survivors List so no previous info, must have been hiding away in a shed!! What condition is the bike? ie barn find, runner but unrestored or fully restored. You dont say if its road registered but Colin is the club GRA Authentication Officer and can help you with registration if needed.

Barn find, mostly all there, not road registered but will be looking to register when I put it all back together.

[JohnAli]

The original engine was a 32A, number 863B 802

Cheers, also have letter from Greeves Motorcycles Ltd 2009 (came with bike) which states Engine Number 863B 802 as you say but states 31A engine.
Engine ID plate also states 31A.

Cheers, John,

[IanCordes]

Straight edge across brake drum and measure distance between straight edge and wheel rim. That's the way I did my BSA wheels.
Are you saying no offset then?

Cheers, John.

As I said, centralised between the spoke flanges. The 31A/32A debate has come up before on 24 TCS models. It is thought they started with 31A motors, which changed to 32A when Villiers phased the earlier engine out around that time; but nothing is quite certain, 60 years on! 863B does seem to be a 32A designation. I have original engines in a TCS and TE, both of which are 32A, both starting with 863B. My TCS was registered in May 1960, but is a later production number than yours, the engine number being 400+ higher. Whatever, it seems as though you have a matching numbers bike there, so all good.

It would be good to see photos of it, although you can't post them up until you are a full member. You could e-mail them to John W and I am sure he would be happy to post them up for you?

Ian C.

[JohnAli]

As I said, centralised between the spoke flanges. The 31A/32A debate has come up before on 24 TCS models. It is thought they started with 31A motors, which changed to 32A when Villiers phased the earlier engine out around that time; but nothing is quite certain, 60 years on! 863B does seem to be a 32A designation. I have original engines in a TCS and TE, both of which are 32A, both starting with 863B. My TCS was registered in May 1960, but is a later production number than yours, the engine number being 400+ higher. Whatever, it seems as though you have a matching numbers bike there, so all good.

It would be good to see photos of it, although you can't post them up until you are a full member. You could e-mail them to John W and I am sure he would be happy to post them up for you?

Ian C.

Thanks for that.
Have pic of bike when I got it but engine now indoors and frame dismantled in shed.
Cheers, John.

[John Wakefield]

Looks a good project assuming you did not pay over the odds for it, the cylinder barrel is 32A (thick flange) The 31A had the thin flange with the shorter con rod , The 31A being basically a 9E bottom end with 250 barrel and head., I think there was a problem with the thin flange breaking so Villiers re cast the barrel with a 1/4" inch thicker flange which then required a 1/4" longer con rod. Is the engine number still 863B 802 ? Looks like a nice old BSA C11G in the shed

[IanCordes]

I don't know how you managed to post that up, but well done! +1 to John W's comments. All the important bits are there. Correct mudguards are available from Villiers Services including 'D' section rear. Front mudguard stay from Adrian Dickerson; see LL Suppliers List. VS can do any engine work, rebuild cranks at reasonable cost etc; all engine & gearbox spares available. Nice project.

Could be a C12?

Ian C.

[Colin Sparrow]

Cheers, also have letter from Greeves Motorcycles Ltd 2009 (came with bike) which states Engine Number 863B 802 as you say but states 31A engine.
Engine ID plate also states 31A.

Cheers, John,

The 863B prefix gives us the engine type. Rob Carrick's and Mick Walker's book "Villiers Everybody's Engine" says that it is either a 9E allocated to Cotton or a 32A allocated to Greeves.

The engine plate is wrong. You can get a 32A engine ID plate from Villiers Services. They'd stamp the right number on it for you. You'd also need new rivets. The old ones come out easily enough.
The number I've quoted fits into the sequence of those being fitted to the 24TCS by Greeves at the time the bike was made.

Nothing to worry about. It just depends how authentic you want your restoration or rebuild to be.

[JohnAli]

Looks a good project assuming you did not pay over the odds for it, the cylinder barrel is 32A (thick flange) The 31A had the thin flange with the shorter con rod , The 31A being basically a 9E bottom end with 250 barrel and head., I think there was a problem with the thin flange breaking so Villiers re cast the barrel with a 1/4" inch thicker flange which then required a 1/4" longer con rod. Is the engine number still 863B 802 ? Looks like a nice old BSA C11G in the shed

Cheers for that.....so essentially I have a modified 31A ........ 9E bottom end with 32A Barrel and con rod?
Engine ID plate looks original and is 31A 863B 802.

Yes, it's a BSA C11G