2 strokes and the environment

[John Wakefield]

With all the current media talk of global warming, saving the environment, and cutting pollution I wonder what effect this will have on the use of our old two strokes. A couple of years ago I faced a road rage attack whilst riding my Greeves twin, an irate van driver cut me up and then issued verbal abuse to me regarding the smoke the bike was making. I have since noticed that many car drivers hang well back and then speed past at the earliest opportunity to over take.
I feel that with all the current hype on saving the planet that two strokes will be a target not only from other road users, and 'tree huggers', but maybe from the authorities as well. A trail of smoke from an old motorcycle will not go unnoticed. How many smoking vehicle do you see on the roads these days? back in the 1950's 60's & 70's lots of old cars with worn engines burnt oil and smoking exhausts were common along with diesel lorries and buses, and of course there were lots of two stroke engined bikes on the road. Nowadays the only two strokes are twist and go scooters with oil injection and no smoke, car engines are better built and dont need re bores every 10000 miles or so, and bus and lorry engines have improved to cut emissions. Also the stricter MoT regs have put those with worn engines off the road.

[IanCordes]

Maybe we should be running our 2-strokes on modern synthetic oils at maybe 40:1, rather than mineral oil at 20:1.I started my roadster single up the other day after a bit of a lay-off, and the smoke was ridiculous. I know there are arguments against running old engines on synthetic oil, but perhaps it is time for compromise.

[ian640]

Who'll be the first to fit an electric motor into their Greeves?

[John Wakefield]

More like take John W off the road? I think he is probably the last of the two-stroke roadsters still going, probably responsible single-handedly for the present decline into global warming?

Yes John could well be, you dont see many classic two strokes Greeves, Francis Barnetts, James, Arial Arrows etc out and about on the roads. Most are 4 strokes BSA Triumph Matchless AJS etc.
As for Ians suggestion on running on synthetic oil at 40:1 I suppose it would reduce smoke a bit, but the smoke is mainly caused by the oil condensing in the silencers at low speeds, and then burning off at higher throttle openings. Even synthetic will do this so again clouds of smoke when you open up after poodling along at 30mph in built up areas.
One of the problems with petroil mix, oil injected 2 strokes are much better in this respect as the oil ratio is varied according to throttle opening.

[PeterJGreig]

I was given (for doing a little turning job) 12 ish litres of marine two stroke oil, no smell, no smoke, apart from on first starting; I would use the same every time if I could find out exactly what it is. Modern oils are so much superior than the old ones.

[IanCordes]

Its all about Greenness a Greeves is green a Morris Minor is green , whats environmentelly friendly about making new products that get scrapped in a few years or ten after being shipped round the world , what excuse is there for putting vegetables on jet planes , old stuff has already been made so the damage is done it should be about making things last , even recycling is not truly environmentally friendly , If you think of how much smoke comes from just cooking its mind boggling , i only use 40-1 or even 50-1 theres just no need to run heavy oil with todays synthetics either , every program i watch about the environment and green energy is heavily using non green products in the program making , The planet will decide the human race will carry on and our little 2 stroke will make no difference .

I couldn't agree more. These are points which the green lobby miss; or choose to ignore. How green is an electric car, when behind the electric socket from which it recharges is a dirty filthy coal-fired power station? Don't start me off.....

On the same vein; what do I do with the 2 gallons of 2-stroke mineral oil I have on the shelf? I can't just not use it and buy fully-synth instead. 2 gallons at 25:1; that will serve 50 gallons of petrol, if I am not mistaken? That should take me 3-4000 miles, at a guess. It needs to be used up, as it has been drawn from the ground, refined; most of the environmental damage has been done.

Dare I run it at 30:1?

[John Wakefield]

The thing also is is how much unseen pollution is given off by synthetic oil (both in manufacture and use) the smoke from may not be as harmful as hidden emissions.
I am quite happy to continue to use mineral oil at 25:1, the smoke does not bother me, BUT what does bother me is the attitude from the public at large who may be getting brainwashed by the media, and Greta Thunberg. Only this weekend a group of environmentalists blockaded a filling station in Cambridge, imagine what may have happened if I had gone there to fill up the Greeves.

[John Wakefield]

Had a run out on the Greeves this afternoon, about 18 miles around mainly minor roads and villages, no issues with smoke, but at one stage I was followed bu a white van, but that turned off after a couple of miles. The low sun made dazzle an issue though. Pic taken at Thriplow, Cambs

[John Pattinson]

Hi John, nice to see a dry road, it's been damp and salty in Kent lately but I still manage the odd ride.

[Soggy Welly]

I recall reading a scientific journal whilst doing my Environmental Management degree, that between 75 and 85% of all the resources a domestic vehicle uses in its whole lifetime are used in its manufacture. The fuel it uses in its lifetime has a small impact by comparison. Logic suggests that keeping vehicles on the road as long as possible, rather than buying new, is the environmentally sound thing to do regardless of the colour or amount of smoke.

For this reason, I have no intention of trading in my smoky old diesel pickup until it breathes its last particulate laden breath, because keeping it is better for the environment then buying new(ish). Of course you could argue I shouldn't use the pick up at all - but I have a living to earn, or that we shouldn't ride bikes at all - but we all deserve a bit of fun!

I've worked in the conservation sector all my life, been banging on about environmental protection for years before it became a news topic, and consider myself pretty informed. And my conscience is clear - I am going to continue riding my classics as long as the bikes, or our often misguided politicians allow me to. Solidarity Brothers!

[PeterJGreig]

If you have spare two stoke put it in a four stroke with knackered rings, burns just the same but less obviously.

[Colin Sparrow]

I recall reading a scientific journal whilst doing my Environmental Management degree, that between 75 and 85% of all the resources a domestic vehicle uses in its whole lifetime are used in its manufacture. The fuel it uses in its lifetime has a small impact by comparison. Logic suggests that keeping vehicles on the road as long as possible, rather than buying new, is the environmentally sound thing to do regardless of the colour or amount of smoke.

For this reason, I have no intention of trading in my smoky old diesel pickup until it breathes its last particulate laden breath, because keeping it is better for the environment then buying new(ish). Of course you could argue I shouldn't use the pick up at all - but I have a living to earn, or that we shouldn't ride bikes at all - but we all deserve a bit of fun!

I've worked in the conservation sector all my life, been banging on about environmental protection for years before it became a news topic, and consider myself pretty informed. And my conscience is clear - I am going to continue riding my classics as long as the bikes, or our often misguided politicians allow me to. Solidarity Brothers!

So I'm in the clear with my 90-year -old Scott then? - Even though it smokes like a good 'un...

[1340fxd]

My Silverstone smokes a bit but on the track nobody appears to mind. However, the cloud out the back when I open up my Kawasaki H2B has to be seen - lovely! Only happens when I blast past cars - rarely the other way round.

[John Wakefield]

Colin, Not necessarily in the clear with the environmentalists and tree huggers, they will home in on that smoke and give you a bit of road rage I can see the headlines now, 'Elderly motorcyclist on smoking 90 year old motorcycle attacked by climate protesters"

[PeterJGreig]

To buy a new less polluting vehicle requires money, which has to be earnt- which requires more effort/industry/toil burning more fuel, creating more pollution...…….