Fasteners

[ian640]

Hi,

I'm about to commence a rebuild of a TFS, and relatively new to British bikes. Would most of the fasteners on an original TFS be Whitworth?

Somewhat subjective question, but is it best to replace with metric or stick with as original? I intend to use the bike rather than show it.

Can anyone recommend suppliers of Whitworth fasterners and tools?

Thanks,

Ian.

[Dogsbody]

BSF, Whitworth, UNF, even BA not sure if there are any Cycle thread ( 26tpi ). No reason to use metric anywhere. The rivet counters even rebel against the use of stainless! Plenty of suppliers on eBay for general use, Villiers Services etc for specials. Dogsbody

[Phil Hyde]

Fasteners.....

TFS frame was BSF, the main exception being the swinging arm spindle which is UNF. Axles are cycle. As quoted previously there are a few other oddities.

Hope this helps.

Stainless is recommended if you are riding in trials. Forget about the rivet counters.

Good luck

[ian640]

Very helpful thank you .

Is the Villiers engine mostly BSF as well?

I would be planning on stainless.

Does anybody make a fastener kit?

Thanks.

[IanCordes]

I seem to remember some years ago there was talk of someone doing frame and engine-mounting fastener & spacer kits for specific models. I too would be interested for TE & TES; prob. very similar to TFS apart from the footrests; & MDS, if anyone can point us in the right direction....?

[ian640]

I've asked Villiers Services, fingers crossed.

[John Wakefield]

Very helpful thank you .

Is the Villiers engine mostly BSF as well?

I would be planning on stainless.

Does anybody make a fastener kit?

Thanks.

The Villiers engine is mainly BSF the chain case & flywheel cover being 1/4 BSF.
Problem in finding stainless replacements is that they are non standard head (counter sunk with domed head). Most s/steel screw kits are socket head (Allen) screws. I would have thought Villiers Services would have original fitment new old stock, but of course these would be the standard cad or zinc plated steel.

[IanCordes]

I am sure John is right, that Villiers engine screws won't be stainless.

I would have some reservations about using stainless frame/engine mounting studs, bolts etc, as I imagine they were high tensile steel from the factory. Others more knowledgeable than me could confirm this? It would be these I would be interested in, as stainless doesn't have the tensile strength, I believe.
Having said that, the heat involved in electro-plating can affect tensile strength...

[Rob]

More importantly, stainless imperial fixtures are a kings ransom! I couldn't believe the prices at Stafford, some bolts were £5-38p EACH! Even zinc-plated are not at all cheap these days either.

Wheel spindles and nuts are cycle (CEI) but 20 tpi, not the more usual 26. Using metric is a heinous sin and not from a rivet-counter point of view either. It just spoils what should be a British (well, Essex anyway!), bike.

[Phil Hyde]

Stainless bolts

Nice comment Rob.

You have summed up the reason why offering fastener kits at around £150 + would be a non starter.

Stainless is the way to go.

[Colin Sparrow]

It just spoils what should be a British (well, Essex anyway!), bike.

What exactly are you trying to say here? I was born in Essex.

[Brian Thompson]

Christian Units For British Bikes!

Does this explain why all my fasteners are Twitworth then....

Anyway, I always use cotton for my threads.... It's more retro than cable ties like wot Kim uses....

Banter aside (if we must...), there's a couple of useful contacts for suitable fasteners here on this thread Ian; http://www.greeves-riders.org.uk/for...teners#post910

Brian.

[Brian Thompson]

More fastener info.

While I'm being sensible Ian (for a change! ), here's a handy reference to the Zeus Tables that Phil mentioned earlier.

https://app.box.com/s/4ulzu8egtjin3etmkyj5

I would also recommend getting a hard copy as it certainly helped me suss out all the different thread forms found on a Greeves. It's fun and interesting learning about this stuff and getting an insight into engineering practices from times past, all part of the experience on my view.

You can find one here;https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...l_7k3gn220gz_b

Phil also mentioned getting yourself a thread gauge, like this, as an example; http://www.mpdirect.co.uk/p/7169/sil...FesV0wodh5wJ8Q

I have several to cover the different thread forms as Phil mentioned in his post. No classic bike restoration toolbox should be without one, very handy indeed.

Hope this helps!

Brian.

[Dogsbody]

The oddest thread I have seen is the 1BA on the chain case and clutch centre. I saw a Helicoil type kit and was looking to buy until I saw the price. £36!!! OBA and 2BA were £25 but 1BA £36. Thought -no, 3/16 BSW will do. ( ie Bodge ). Dogsbody

[Phil Hyde]

Threadities

A useful tip is that 0 BA and M6 are essentially the same. BA is metric based oddly.

Quarter Whitworth and quarter UNC also interchange.