Another one bites the dust.

[dave higgins]

Another scramble cancelled in the south west again!! ( honiton 10th july ) , not to the weather, but lack of numbers again.
Not the club concerneds fault, they have to break even at the minimum, but where does this leave our sport, clubs seem to be holding the door open for late entries to the twelth hour in hope, then having to stop the meeting to avoid losing money at the last minuite.
I don`t know what the answer is & i don`t think you can still blame the economic climate, but it is very worrying, most clubs hold three meeting per season & if this goes down to two, then thats going to be a big hole in our bucket of fun!.
This thread has got undertones of another recent subject about the value of classics, prehaps it is the cost of machinery or older retiring riders not being replaced by younger people.
But if the decline does not stop, then we will all be travelling a lot farther, less frequently, to enjoy our sport. dave..
I do apologise if this is posted in the wrong section.

[John Wakefield]

another one bites the dust

You have hit the nail on the head hear Dave. I think it is linked to the general waining interest in classics & the younger generation. There seems to be a ever widening gap between modern motor cycling, (both on road & off road) & the vintage/classic brigade. In my younger day every youngster started off his/her driving career on a motor bike, using it for daily transport & for some, sport. These days few now take the motorcycle test due partly to the cost (driving lessons test fees etc cost as much as learning to drive an HGV or PSV), and partly to due to parents not wanting kids to ride 'dangerous' motor bikes.
Motorcycling now has become a social thing, something to spend that disposable income on for weekend ride outs to race meetings shows etc., very few ride to work on a motor bike these days. There is a divide between these 'new age' bikers and us old farts, meet a modern biker on the road when out on your classic & they just ride by with not so much as a nod. No comradeship any more.
The same goes for the sporting side. If you are not brought up on bikes then you are unlikely to have an interest in motorcycle sport. Plus the cost of modern competition is prohibitive for many. Back in the 50's 60's & 70's when I was riding competition (trials & enduros) you could pick up a bike cheaply & have some fun, these days not only the cost of bikes but the cost of entry has gone through the roof, a lot to do with insurance cost no doubt.
A few years ago when competition started to get expensive the Pre 65 trials & Scrambles were 'invented' to give those riders who still wanted a cheap fun day out on an old Greeves or other no longer competative bike that they may have held onto. Sadly as I have said before on this forum, some people are not happy to just ride for fun on an old clunker but start modyfiing it with trick parts to get the edge over there fellow riders, with the result that so called pre 65 or twin shocks are now changing hands for similar prices to modern machines. So we now have a situation where these older 'ride for fun' competitors are hanging up their boots with no incomming younger riders to take their place. Those that do want to compete will do so on modern bikes.

[dave higgins]

Yes john, but you cannot stop the competive side in people that want to get the best out of a machine?, i for one am guilty of that, & i don`t think its the cost either, when you pay £5000 plus for a bike, like many do, the £35 entrance fee plus fuel etc is not excessive.
It would be fair to ride standard factory machines, but then you have a problem of supply & availabilty of these bikes, in the event that there were enough, people would start to tweak them & then your back to square one.
You talk to other riders in the pits & thier passion for the sport is unquestionable, but where does that go when the entries arn`t coming in.
It could be the pace of life is to fast these days, with work patterns etc, changing all the time, but i do think if we don`t try & stop the decline, then when its gone, its gone for good.
By the way when you say " us old farts " john, i don`t think 49 places me in the coffin dodger category just yet ....

[merlin]

i don`t think 49 places me in the coffin dodger category just yet ....

You are to a twenty year old.

[John Wakefield]

Additional wording

Yes john, but you cannot stop the competive side in people that want to get the best out of a machine?, i for one am guilty of that, & i don`t think its the cost either, when you pay £5000 plus for a bike, like many do, the £35 entrance fee plus fuel etc is not excessive.
It would be fair to ride standard factory machines, but then you have a problem of supply & availabilty of these bikes, in the event that there were enough, people would start to tweak them & then your back to square one.
You talk to other riders in the pits & thier passion for the sport is unquestionable, but where does that go when the entries arn`t coming in.
It could be the pace of life is to fast these days, with work patterns etc, changing all the time, but i do think if we don`t try & stop the decline, then when its gone, its gone for good.
By the way when you say " us old farts " john, i don`t think 49 places me in the coffin dodger category just yet ....

Dave At 49 you are young enough to race a modern machine, when I was you age I would not even consider racing old uncompetative machines. Whilst it may not be the correct place to mention it I only ever road a Greeves (TAS Scottish) for about two seasons at the begining of my trials career, I then went with the trend to Bultaco & in enduros to a Rickman mini Mettise, ex works Saracen & modified Yamaha XT 500. Not being big headed I had reasonable success as a clubman rider, & when in later life I started to loose my competive edge, I gave up. No interest in pre 65 or vintage events whatsoever either as a rider or spectator. What is the situation with modern event entries? Are entries tailing off with these too? I am out of touch with the sport these days, but I understand my old club (& that of Brian Stonebridge) The Cambridge Matchless MCC, still run successful modern bike trials three or four times a year, but they have long since given up running motocross though, due to rising costs, falling public interest etc.

[dave higgins]

John, i have no idea what modern mx is like, from the few meetings i have seen, i think you need a pilots licence, more than a bike one.
The classic meetings are where the characters are though, for every person that turns up with a new bike, new van etc, there is another guy lashing his old bike back together, trying to get another race out of it.
Thats what its all about, you say there is no commaradery on the road any more, but its still alive & kicking in classic scrambles.
At the bike bonanza, my clutch went & i had 3 people i`d never met before helping me to replace it, i did not ask them, they just started helping, now where else can you get that sort of spirit. dave...

[John Wakefield]

The problem I fear Dave is the cost of putting these events on, as I said in my previous posting the Cambridge Matchless MCC (along with many other clubs) gave up on promoting motocross many years ago. The public, who through their entry money funded the events, just did not turn up any more. In Stonebridge's day they had crowds in the 1000's at Elsworth, but by the late 80's crowds stopped coming. Too many other events & attractions on to take the public interest.
The sad thing about motorcycling is it does not get much positive media coverage. Back in the 60's the BBC had scrambling on TV on a regular basis, but not any more. I was surprised at this years superb coverage of the TT, & some of the other road race meetings (Moto GP) etc get good coverage on the 'secondary' digital channels. I bet this sells a few 'resin rockets', & encourages people to go along to meetings. Maybe if moto cross got some good TV coverage then it might, just might install some public interest.
Back to your problem, maybe the pre 65 riders need to get together, have a meeting & try to find a way forward.

[dave higgins]

Yes all relevant points john, spectators!!, i`d never really thought to much about that side, but i guess at the end of the day its just made up of family, helpers etc, no one really turns up to watch an event that they are not connected to any more.
prehaps, tighter entry deadlines?, cut off point two weeks before the event, at least that way everybody knows either way?, stop all this last minuite, which meeting am i going to race at crap.
No entry, no ride, i think thats fair on the club and rider to. dave

[Kim275]

Interesting debate:-----

1. I suspect soaring fuel costs have an impact for some --- especially for the events that are further afield - e.g Devon --- In the Greeves championship - we used to do Coombe Martin and a Bath event....so the fact that we don't anymore may also contribute to probs in SW a little - as we normally added 20 to 30 bikes to an event.
2. At 49 as well - I could still race modern motocross - I haven't done in the last 3 years - although I have a bike - as I prefer to race classics - its more fun....although next season I will do some Twinshock events.
3. It would be good if more classic events also offered a twinshock class..........went to a terrific race at Owlesbury early in the year - rode my Greeves in the Circa class.......the event had modern and twinshock classes - It was a cracker. (especially as Zach Osborne - current MX2 GP star borrowed bikes and rode in all classes!)

4. Classics really arn't cheap - when you need to maintain them over several seasons........compared to Modern............they break down more and the cost of bits and labour have shot up.....and also note that some expensive mods are also done to try and improve sustainability/reliability of the bike e.g newer pistons/PVL ignition. Its not all about making the bike go quicker.

5.Also purchase costs have shot up - I can buy a very competitive 250F for £2000 - in fact I Bought my 2006YZ 250F new for £2500........With a classic - people are getting very greedy - you get junk these days for £2500 - and then have to spend a lot of money sorting out the problems.

4. We need to do more to encourage younger riders........My 18 yr old Nephew has just started..........in fact he wanted to start 2 years ago - but classic clubs e.g Pre 65 - don't allow you to ride until you are 18......
5. And finally - Since the AMCA decided to ban cycling in the Pits - my kids now very rarely come to motocross..........as they get bored - I suspect that this also will end up in us loosing potential future riders......from the most likely source - the offspring of the current riders !!



Cheers Kim

[dave higgins]

Hi kim, good input, the dorset club run twinshocks with the older pre 65 & 60`s, but you only tend to get a handfull of the older bikes & they seem to get all lumped together so that there is enough to make up a few races, but a race is a race & thats better than nothing.
I don`t know whether the twinshock boys are starting to suffer from low numbers, i would imagine not as most riders would still be working, unlike the classics where some of the more senior chaps are retired.
What do other riders think, is this just a blip due to economics or the shape of things to come? dave.

[ampshire-og]

Hi Dave / Kim,

Zach Osbourne.... what a guy, and nice to boot!!! Owselbury was excellent and i couldn't believe how well the track stood up to all the classes and races! We classic riders should get a classic meeting there! I know it's been talked about, it needs the word to get round whay a super track it was.
As for classic meetings i personnelly believe riders are chosing where and when to ride due to ecomonics and suitable tracks. Take Mortimer (classic only) this weekend, most classes are full and the team race on saturday is very well supported.
Dorset club at Penselwood the week after is also full to most classes with the exception of a few places left in the small capacity classic class.
The Bonanza (classic only) was also very well supported with good full line-ups.
I think the key to all these three meetings is the track! If the Devon club could find another classic friendly venue i think they would get more success?

Only my opinion.

Kevin Willmer (124)

[dave higgins]

Hi ampshire, you have a good point about good tracks?, personally though, i thought the wilmington track was ok, as is the bath clubs yatton kenal, which was also cancelled due to low numbers.
Land available to clubs is scarce & i suppose we are lucky to have what we have, so as they say " musn`t grumble ", are you riding at mortimer?, i shall be at pensilwood, next week, if you are there. dave....)

[ampshire-og]

Hi Dave,
Yes i'm at Mortimer, racing both days. We've entered a team for saturday and doing the usual classes on sunday.

For me the next meeting is Penselwood then Coombe Martin (another cracking track!) but a bit far away for alot of people and again i'm hearing entries are low, so bang goes my theory about tracks!

Whats your race number i'll look out for you.

Kevin

[dave higgins]

Hi ampshire, yes i`ll be at all three, riding no 641, i always ride at the back, i found it much quieter, it suits my style more ( rubbish )...... dave.

[ampshire-og]

Hi Dave,
Are you riding the red twin port Griffon in the picture?

By the way, it don't really matter where your riding in the field, just as long as you are enjoying it!
I enjoy it most when i'm having dices with the people around me! could be 4th , 5th 6th or 20th, 21st, it's all the same so long as we all go home safe and in one piece!

Do you know if there is a Greeves round at Mortimer?

Before i was offered silly money for my Griffons, i used to do some of the Greeves rounds and i can honestly say they were very enjoyable. And with Dave H's clever points system, i thought it gives a fair recognition for all the different ablities of the various riders.

All the best
Kevin