Interesting 'Villiers' (?) Gearbox Modification.

[Brian Thompson]

I spotted this interesting 'Villiers' gearbox modification on one of John Bull's 'replica' DOT trials machines, at the 2009 Telford Classic Off Road Show.

As you can see from the pics, the bottom 'bulge' of the gearbox has been removed to improve ground clearance and to fit flush with the bash plate. Compare it with the pic of the standard Villiers gearbox as fitted to a 24TCS (pic 4), and when you look at the line of the magneto cover it's clear just how much as been removed. Looking at the DOT, I wonder if a special casting has been produced for the gearbox shell to facilitate this modification, as it differs in several details to the standard Villiers shell. Note also the modified clutch adjuster arrangment and cut-away rear casing.

If nothing else it certainly shows the lengths people are going to with modifications on these 'trick' pre65 (?!) bikes! Very neatly done though.

Brian.

[Brian Thompson]

'Trick' John Bull DOT Trials 'Replica'.

Hi M,

Interesting point, and no doubt it could have the matching titanium spindles etc etc etc to match! Lots of nice attention to detail though, with all the drilled and dished fasteners, and a well built machine I thought. Like all of these 'trick' bikes though, my own feeling is that they are 'specials', so far removed are they from the roots (and costs!) of 'true' pre65 competition these days...let alone the sections!!!

I think this DOT was part of a batch of 'replicas' that John Bull produced a while back, and one was tested in a back issue of 'Classic Dirt Bike' magazine.
Here's a link to John Bull's 'Rockshocks' website, and a gallery with more pics of the DOT; http://www.rockshocks.co.uk/gallery/

Brian.

[John-Boy]

I wonder whether these were the same people selling DoT frames at Telford last year? Replica James/Francis Barnett frames are already widely used.

Although they look like the original frames they are no doubt made from superior materials with different geometry. Add Titanium wheel and swinging arm spindles, modern tyres plus a modern copy engine with multi-port barrel and they are nothing like the originals.

There are also some very nice BSA Bantams about but nothing like the original trials Bantam with its rigid frame, spindly forks and 125cc.

Norton Villiers have been developing a traction control module for their electronic ignition. Seems to defeat the object of the exercise somehow. No good for scrambling where half the fun is to spin the back wheel and cover the person behind in mud.

I wonder how much these bikes cost?

[John Wakefield]

John Bull

Is this the same John Bull who was a top South Midland Centre trials rider in the 1960's & 70's? I have already made my feelings known on these trick bikes but at the end of the day if silly old buggers want to buy them & try to re-live their youth then fine. I enjoyed my trials riding in the 70's but prefer to keep to roads now.

[Brian Thompson]

'Trick' Bikes and 'Replicas'

I wonder whether these were the same people selling DoT frames at Telford last year? Replica James/Francis Barnett frames are already widely used.

Although they look like the original frames they are no doubt made from superior materials with different geometry. Add Titanium wheel and swinging arm spindles, modern tyres plus a modern copy engine with multi-port barrel and they are nothing like the originals.

There are also some very nice BSA Bantams about but nothing like the original trials Bantam with its rigid frame, spindly forks and 125cc.

Norton Villiers have been developing a traction control module for their electronic ignition. Seems to defeat the object of the exercise somehow. No good for scrambling where half the fun is to spin the back wheel and cover the person behind in mud.

I wonder how much these bikes cost?

Thanks for contributing John, and personally I completely agree with where you are coming from there.

I'm not sure on your frame question as I didn't attend Telford last year. However, there's no doubt that many suppliers of uprated 'replica' frames etc for all branches of classic off road sport have sprung up in the last few years.

There is no doubt that costs have risen too in some areas, as the 'market' has developed and people are sold on the idea that they 'need' these trick items in order to make their machines 'usable' for a bit of fun on a Sunday. As I used to tell my guitar students, it doesn't matter how much you spend on an instrument because it won't make you a better player...! It might be a bit easier to play and sound better, but a good player can make just about any old plank sing! Another good one from the surfing world is; 'The best surfer in the world is the one having the most FUN!'

I find these 'trick' machines interesting to look at, and marvel at the lengths people have gone to in developing them, as well as the obvious engineering skills on display. But when you see trials Bantams (the new 'Cub'?) going for £6K (!), as Rob and I were discussing recently, you have to wonder....

Anyway, I have a feeling that my (mostly original) old Greeves TCS will always be better than me off road, however many 'trick' bit I bolt to it!

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

Trick bikes

Brian you have 'hit the nail on the head' here. Its that same in all branches of sport (& other pursuites) You always see the no hopers spending bucket loads of disposable income on the top bikes only to collapse in a heap at the the first section. If you aint got the ability no trick bike will make you a world champion. I wonder what will happen when the recession really bites next year (we aint seen nothing yet) & disposable income become zilch?

[Colin Sparrow]

Of course you could be like I used to be and ride a barely modified 24TDS and still collapse in a heap after a few sections. BUT at least you've got an excuse...

Signed Silly old B*gg*r

[Brian Thompson]

Smokey and the Bendit!

Of course you could be like I used to be and ride a barely modified 24TDS and still collapse in a heap after a few sections. BUT at least you've got an excuse...

Exactly!!!! (And I'll probably have a fag on the go as well...!)

Mr Bendit.

[Phil Hyde]

Modified Gearbox cover

My glass is both half full, and half empty. I agree with some on the crazy money people will spend on a "Classic" trials bike. Equally I am up there with those who have moved on and developed things. Perhaps for some too far.

One day I will build my Triumph-Greeves with disc brakes, hydraulic clutch, and loads of exotic parts made from unobtanium.

The cases look like they have been specially made. My knowlege of the gearbox with the dangly down bit is poor to say the least so what they have actually cut off or removed is unknown.

Maybe some Villiers 'spert will step forward.

Nonetheless it does look good. Well spotted Brian.

If you really want to see development look at Duncan McDonald's ARMAC Cub site. If you like cubs pure then stay away.

Phil

[Brian Thompson]

Trick Bikes etc.

Good points Phil.

Here's a link to the site ARMAC site you mentioned. ££££££££££!!!!!!! How to loose it in both senses of the word...! (But very nicely made gear all the same!);

http://www.armac-design.com/Armac_Design/Welcome.html

Brian.