Villiers Starmaker

[Colin Sparrow]

In my researches I'm puzzling over an exploded view of the first Starmaker.

I've never possessed or worked on one of those, so need a bit of clarification.

From the view I've got, the outer (needle roller) main bearing on the drive side (behind the engine sprocket) appears to be outboard of the crank seal.

Is that right? And if so it would presumably have been lubricated by the oil in the chaincase?

Also, anyone like to comment on how they compare in use with the 34A or 36A square barrel MCS/MDS engine and the long-stroke Challenger?

Thanks guys.

[John Wakefield]

Starmaker

Colin I dont think this really answers your first question but some useful info there though http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac....Villiers12.htm

[Phil Hyde]

Starmaker

Colin

I found these words on a site. They may help....


The big-end, also slotted to assist lubrication, runs on a caged needle-roller bearing. The built-up drive shaft incorporates full-circle cranks and is carried on two roller journal bearings and one caged needle-roller bearing. A stepped crankpin is used. The crankcase is an aluminium-alloy casting, externally ribbed for added strength and to assist in cooling.


In reality the Starmaker was a step change for Villiers. Needle and roller bearings abounded in both gearboxes as well as the engine. Engine designer Bernard Hooper was better known for the Norton Commando. Both Commando and Starmaker sharing the diaphragm clutch.
Phil

[pluscab]

And the biggest change ( for Villiers ). They went from BSF to UNF threads. Had me fooled at first

[Phil Hyde]

Starmaker thread

Good point. Not unlike Triumph who also went down the Unified path. I wonder if they would have gone to Metric if the original company was still in business?...................

Sorry Colin I've got a bit cross threaded

Phil

[Colin Sparrow]

Yes, sorry, I knew it had three main bearings; two caged rollers tight to the flywheels and the needle roller on the drive side just behind the engine sprocket.

I just wanted to try and clarify if, as it appears from the drawing, whether the needle roller bearing was actually outboard of the crankcase seal and thus remote from receiving petroil lubrication.

It just struck me as an unusual way of doing it, but I can see the point of providing crankshaft support close to the sprocket.

Surely someone out there must have had one to bits recently. Where's the pre '65 MX boys when you need 'em!

[John Wakefield]

Colin, might be worth contacting AJS Motorcycles http://www.ajsmotorcycles.co.uk/new_AJS/docs/main.htm

[John Pattinson]

Villiers Starmaker

Hi Colin, the outer drive side roller bearing is lubricated by the primary chaincase oil, there is a drilling in the top of the bearing boss to catch the oil. Very similar to BSA Bantam practice. I gave Graham Mitchell a ring for the info...John P.

[Colin Sparrow]

Thanks John - clearly it worked ok - provided there was oil in the chaincase.

Last time I had a Bantam to bits I was too young and stupid to know what I was looking at. "Crank seals - wot are they?"

It did run afterwards, as I recall...

[stormer254]

Hi Colin, the outer drive side roller bearing is lubricated by the primary chaincase oil, there is a drilling in the top of the bearing boss to catch the oil. Very similar to BSA Bantam practice. I gave Graham Mitchell a ring for the info...John P.

Absolutely correct, but you do need oil in the cases, and you should really change it every time you ride, bits of chain and clutch in the needle roller will not extend it's life!
You can, though I never have, machine the outside of the crank case to take the seal, and position the bearing to suit, remembering to close the feed hole!

[stormer254]

Yes, sorry, I knew it had three main bearings; two caged rollers tight to the flywheels and the needle roller on the drive side just behind the engine sprocket.

I just wanted to try and clarify if, as it appears from the drawing, whether the needle roller bearing was actually outboard of the crankcase seal and thus remote from receiving petroil lubrication.

It just struck me as an unusual way of doing it, but I can see the point of providing crankshaft support close to the sprocket.

Surely someone out there must have had one to bits recently. Where's the pre '65 MX boys when you need 'em!

Only a couple of MES about, they all ride Challengers or 34A

[Colin Sparrow]

Only a couple of MES about, they all ride Challengers or 34A

Fair comment, but I've seen a few Starmakers in other makes in the Pre '65 MX paddock - including your Ajay? Knew someone would help. Thanks.

Is anyone actually racing a genuine 24ME? With only 100 or so sold, they must be pretty rare these days.

[MedwayDave]

24 ME Starmaker

Colin, have just picked up your thread on this, was a late joiner to the forum. I bought a 24ME about 6 yrs ago, no engine fitted but guy threw a 10E engine into the sale, convincing me it would fit. Project laid dormant until I got a decent workshop and then it was obvious the 10E didn't fit the cradle. Starting search for Stamaker engine about two years ago, found a box of bits on eBay back in December. It's an AJS Stormer Starmaker, nearly back together just waiting for a piston. Got a manual from AJS in Andover and lots of tech help and lots of bits from them. Hope it will look fairly authentic but won't have the wide fin head and barrel or two Amals !

[Colin Sparrow]

Dave, we'll be very interested to hear how this project progresses.

Do you plan to ride it in the Pre '65 MX Club Greeves Championship?

[MedwayDave]

Hi Colin, I really don't have a ride plan for it yet. just interested in getting it going. I haven't ridden a bike since 1966 so pre 65 motocross a bit unrealistic!
Once its going will decide on how it will be used.

Will have pictures with engine in, hope to bring some along on Sunday

Dave