The Trident Greeves.

[Brian Thompson]

Back in February 2006, a story was published in 'Leading Link' (#127) about an incredible (and courageous!) Trident Greeves project, written by the builder GRA member Andrew Haworth.

A follow-up article appeared in December 2007 ('LL'#138), showing that good progress had been made on the bike. However, Andrew noted that he hadn't been able to get as much done as he'd have liked due to developing his business, Moll Springs Motorcycles.

I read in 'Pt 2' that Andrew had been in touch with Phil (Hyde) who had passed on advice on the build, but sadly, since then I have seen or heard nothing more about this amazing bike.

Does anyone know if Andrew managed to finish it? Did the Health and Safety brigade get wind of it and put a 'restraining order' on him? Did John Bloor buy up the project as the basis for the 2012 Triumph Daytona 'Superbike'?

I think we should be told...!

Seriously, it would be great to hear any news about this awesome bike!

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

Trident Greeves

http://www.mollsprings.co.uk/

This is the link to Andrew's web site Moll Springs Motorcycles, nothing on there about the Trident Greeves though.

[Brian Thompson]

Trident Greeves.

I know, I checked!

Brian.

[John Wakefield]

Why not drop Andrew an email and ask him about it. Email address is on the contact page.

[Normandale]

The fact that the gear box sprocket centre line appears to be at least 50mm below that of the swinging arm pivot, makes you wonder whether or not the builder knows very much about putting together hybrid bikes?

[Andy Z]

The fact that the gear box sprocket centre line appears to be at least 50mm below that of the swinging arm pivot, makes you wonder whether or not the builder knows very much about putting together hybrid bikes?

Should do great wheelies with that configuration though!!
Seriously though, it does make you wonder whether that might have been the reason for abandonning the project. Bit of a mad choice of frame for that huge Trident lump - too heavy for my liking I'm afraid...

[Normandale]

I feel that if the builder had ever managed to get that thing finished, that he would have found it wouldnt have taken long for the chain to cut through the swinging arm, unless he fitted a rigid rear end that is...........lol

The worrying thing here though is that this guy seems to be running a motorcycle shop, and doesnt seem to have even a basic understanding of simple engineering issues.............let hope he isnt going to try to sell any of his creations!

[Andy Z]

I feel that if the builder had ever managed to get that thing finished, that he would have found it wouldnt have taken long for the chain to cut through the swinging arm, unless he fitted a rigid rear end that is...........lol

The worrying thing here though is that this guy seems to be running a motorcycle shop, and doesnt seem to have even a basic understanding of simple engineering issues.............let hope he isnt going to try to sell any of his creations!

I can think of at least 3 people I have known who were bike shop owners who had no engineering knowledge whatsover, so he's not on his own!!!

[Phil Hyde]

The Trident Triumph-Greeves

As one of the people mentioned in the original thread posted by Brian I feel the need to have my say as a Professional Engineer.

When Andrew contacted me originally I naturally expressed my concerns regarding stopping this beast in the making. When you are doing something not previously attempted you gather as much assistance and knowledge, formulate a plan and set off. After all, the biggest Triumph engine fitted previously was a unit 650 (picture posted recently in Triumph-Greeves Section).

On road gearing we are looking at a 20 or 21 tooth sprocket. So no, the chain will not be sawing it's way through the swinging arm or any other part of the frame.

Perhaps Andrew could be persuaded to give an update on progress.

Kind regards

Phil

[John Wakefield]

Perhaps Andrew could be persuaded to give an update on progress.

I have today emailed Andrew inviting him to post an update on the forum, hopefully we will hear from him soon.

[Brian Thompson]

The Trident Greeves Thread.

As one of the people mentioned in the original thread posted by Brian I feel the need to have my say as a Professional Engineer.

When Andrew contacted me originally I naturally expressed my concerns regarding stopping this beast in the making. When you are doing something not previously attempted you gather as much assistance and knowledge, formulate a plan and set off. After all, the biggest Triumph engine fitted previously was a unit 650 (picture posted recently in Triumph-Greeves Section).

I will disagree with Normandale about the gearbox sprocket position. On road gearing we are looking at a 20 or 21 tooth sprocket. So no, the chain will not be sawing it's way through the swinging arm or any other part of the frame. There has been a bit too much unfounded criticism by some over the engineering of this project and many others. In real engineering terms the construction of Andrew's Greeves is Victorian, belt and braces stuff. The criticism however is Chinese poor quality and paper thin.

Perhaps Andrew could be persuaded to give an update on progress.

Kind regards

Phil

Thanks for the informed response Phil as always, and I fully support your comments. As far as I'm concerned, if there is a more knowledgable bloke out there than you when it comes to building a Triumph Greeves I have yet to hear of them.

For the record, when I started this thread it was out of a genuine desire to find out more about this fascinating project and any further progress that might have been made. I'd merely hoped it would become an interesting addition to the 'Triumph Greeves' section, and certainly not a platform to rubbish the efforts of a fellow GRA member.

As such, I have to say that I am saddened to see the way it has since developed....The term 'hijacked' springs to mind actually.

As I've said before in other similar threads, personally I applaud and respect the efforts of guys like Andrew Haworth who attempt projects of this kind, and all the many others that have gone before, and I myself get great enjoyment and interest from hearing about them, good bad or ugly. As far as criticism goes, I seem to recall all the experts laughing at Burt Munro with his old Indian until they saw what it could do....and he had a few wise thoughts to offer about those that did so too as I recall...

I have derived a great deal of pleasure in helping the GRA develop this forum, and have been delighted to see it develop and grow into a very friendly place thanks to the typical generosity of GRA members, where like minded Greeves enthusiasts can enjoy sharing views and opinions on their hobby in a positive, helpful, informative and supportive way.

A bit of light hearted 'banter' amongst mates is one thing, but I reckon cheap shots like this, fired off from behind the annonymity of a 'user name', should be confined to places like 'Facebook' which is where they belong it seems, sadly...This is all the more galling when it involves a forum member who could arguably be described as a GUEST on here...

Please consider any responses to this post carefully gentlemen. Happily there has been very little need for posts to be moderated so far, and it would truly be a great shame to have to start now. Indeed, I fear this particular thread may have already gone too far in that respect...

Enough guys, ok? It's hardly the welcome we would all like to offer Andrew to our forum should he choose to respond to these posts.
Brian.

[Normandale]

Sorry to have upset the apple cart............Anyone without the required technical knowledge to get involved with this type of project, should maybe have a read of Tony Foales excellent "Motorcycle Handling & Chassis Design" which goes into the all the various issues to be considered extensively?

[Brian Thompson]

Tony Foale etc....

You mean the bloke who built stuff like the bike in the pic I've attached below.....? Many of us are already very familiar with that book, and one or two others besides....

I guess it comes from having an interest in bikes that pioneered the use of composite frames and funny front ends, know what I mean....?

Interestingly, I photographed this example of Tony's work at the GRA's 25th Anniversary Show at Battlesbridge in 2009. I guess the owner was interested in coming along to see some of the bikes that led the way back in the 50's and 60's....

Brian.

[Brian Thompson]

Is that it....?

Are we done now.....?

Brian.

[Colin Sparrow]

A bit of light hearted 'banter' amongst mates is one thing, but I reckon cheap shots like this, fired off from behind the annonymity of a 'user name', should be confined to places like 'Facebook' which is where they belong it seems, sadly...This is all the more galling when it involves a forum member who could arguably be described as a GUEST on here...

Please consider any responses to this post carefully gentlemen. Happily there has been very little need for posts to be moderated so far, and it would truly be a great shame to have to start now. Indeed, I fear this particular thread may have already gone too far in that respect...

Enough guys, ok? It's hardly the welcome we would all like to offer Andrew to our forum should he choose to respond to these posts.
Brian.

I have to agree with Brian here. Let's keep it friendly, helpful and not too serious. This forum lark is supposed to be a fun extension to the GRA's activities. If anyone has more serious matters or criticisms then please air them privately in a more appropriate place.

This extends to things like being over-critical of others people's efforts, having a go at suppliers, being overly rude about bikes on eBay and that sort of thing.

To put it in a nutshell, if the forum starts to turn nasty either those responsible or even the forum itself will be shut down. Like I said, please keep it friendly, please keep it constructive.