20scs

[John Wakefield]

I have just recorded the first 1961 20SCS Hawstone on survivors list. (61/2503). Why would Greeves still be making a 9E (197cc) bike, as by 1961 250cc engines.(34A) were available?.

[johnrunnacles]

A throw-back to Brian Stonebridge perhaps, and the first true all-conquering Hawkstone Special? The 9E Greeves was still popular with clubmen riders as a consequence, and an "Up to 200cc" Class was often catered for in Centre Scrambles even into the early 1960's. Riders with a 250 Greeves would also bring a 197cc companion bike for that Class. But 1961 was probably the beginning of the end for the 197cc Villiers Greeves .............. ?

[John Wakefield]

Thanks John, I think you are right particularly re the 200cc class. In a similar vein the 20TE Scottish trials was also rare with only 2 known survivors as yet.

[tony]

Talking of 20TE - Expected back from the USA in a month or two - 20TE101 (not mine)


New thread started as I don't want to hijack this one.

[garybam4711]

That’s a nice find Tony I am sure the owner is happy at that one
Gary

[teamferret]

I think people were slow to change (and didn't have the money to) plus the 200 is often more reliable. To finish firt, first you have to finish.

[johnrunnacles]

Another reason, teamferret, for taking the 197 alongside the 250 to the meetings ...............

[teamferret]

I never had 2 bikes, so I used to have 2 engines and swop accordingly. I did a Wednesday night scramble with the Acorns (probably 30 years ago) and did well against some bantam and hot Cubs. I then swopped to the 250 engine for the final all comers race (took about 45 mins) and was challenging for 3rd when it seized

[John Wakefield]

61/2503 Now on eBay with new owner in London https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREEVES-H...YAAOSwuihfx7wc

[John Wakefield]

Another 20SCS (61/2508) has turned up from USA but with 250cc engine, and now for sale with Classic Bike Imports https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225702874015 so looks like at last 8 were built.

[IanCordes]

The 20SC and SCS (whatever the difference was?) continued into 1962, starting 20SC101 & 20SCS101, and even into 1962 with 20SC106 listed. Built to special order by then, one suspects.

[John Wakefield]

Interesting, I have no 1962 20SC surviving but have four 1962 20MDS as follows:

20MDS102		1962	Canada	Alberta	?		01/12/2013 ex Frank Conely
20MDS106		1962	USA	Ohio	Alan Trout		12/13 Ron Rault, Alberta, Canada. by 1/20 Alan Trout, Ohio, USA
20MDS110		1962	USA	California	Brack Zollo		by 9/18
20MDS111		1962	USA		unknown		spotted by John Hart, Nevada 2/22 but he is not owner

A 20MDS is mentioned in the 24MDS brochure as being available with 200cc alloy barrel to special order

[IanCordes]

Yes, but of course the MD range is a completely different 'bike to the SC. There must have been sufficient interest in the 197 scramblers from '62-on for Greeves to have fitted the square barrels with 59mm bore liners.Surprising.

The 20MDS isn't shown in the listing in either the Carrick/Walker book, or Colins, showing there are gaps in those records, as your list of known 20MDS' proves.