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Now this is a barn find

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  • Now this is a barn find

    This roadster, appears to be a 1962 25DC (or 32DC) with 4T engine retro fitted. reg 192 MAR is a Hertfordshire reg from July 1962. Its not on DVLA but Herts records exist at Hertfordshire Archives. Owner Jimmy Matthews has been offered 250 for it, and is asking on facebook if thats a fair price
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Yes, saw this. 250 - cheeky


    • #3
      Been offered 500 from UK and $2000 from USA. When I saw it I was worried it was a hybrid.


      • #4
        Owner seems to have accepted 300. Bike being collected Saturday.


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brian Catt View Post
          Been offered 500 from UK and $2000 from USA. When I saw it I was worried it was a hybrid.
          I see someone suggested number plate is worth 250. Possibly more if it was current, but its not, if it can be recovered it stays with the bike as non transferable. (just in case any prospective number plate dealers are reading this)


          • #6
            New Owner

            Hi everyone, I'm a new GRA member and the new owner of 192MAR, its a 1961 25DC (got this from the GRA) which by the time I got to it the bidding had got to 600 (from a dealer) so I paid 650 which seemed fair. It needs a complete rebuild which will keep me busy over the winter and hopefully be ready for the summer. I want it to be a working classic rather than show bike. I'm afraid Ive got loads of questions so I thought it might be best to get them started:-

            Engine: Before I rebuild the engine, it was seized but is apart now, I want to be sure what I have? It's either a 4T with the original 2T number on the inner chain case half with a 6 pin generator plug? or its a 4T top end and 2T bottom end?
            These are the parts numbers:-
            Chain case inner half 5322/2 A8060/1
            Con rod 0548
            Crankshaft 09892 & 09893
            Gearbox case 5408/2
            Left crankcase A8371 2 5590
            Right crankcase A8370 2 5589
            6 pin generator 6661/1 M2612C
            Carb Villiers S25/6.
            Hope that helps to id it before I buy bearings seals etc.

            Powder coating: I live in Thundersley, (yes home of Greeves) Essex can anyone recommend a powder coater and is there a way of ensuring I get the right shade of Moorland blue, I've seen many variations! Also would it be normal to powder coat the tank? I thought I'd do this to make sure the colour matched and then spray the light blue and gold pin stripe over?

            Wheels: Its got paddle hubs but the front wheels is completely shot so needs new rims and spokes, can anybody recommend someone?

            Tyres: It needs new tyres but I think new style tyres don't look right so would like to keep them looking period but as I'm going to be riding the bike I'd also like them to have reasonable grip, especially as I'm not expecting the brakes to be that good. Any suggestions gratefully received.

            I expect Villiers service to be the best place for engine spares?

            That's all for now, thanks for your help. Regards, John


            • #7
              Hi John
              I think you may already have had my response to some of your questions via Brain Catt on Facebook.

              The 4T engine is obviously wrong for your bike it should have a 2T engine can you give me frame number

              RE the plug, the 4T had both 5 & 6 pin plug/socket not a lot of difference to basic wiring I think extra pin is an additional earth. can you give me full engine number & I can tell you what it was originally fitted to.

              The 2T & 4T top end are not interchangeable unless you change crankshaft/con rods as the 4T has larger gudgeon pins & different pistons.
              The 4T engine has a slightly better performance over the 2T and is less prone to seizure due to larger fining. Perfectly OK but if you want originality get another 2T engine. Your bike had a siamese exhaust when new, the 4T had separate silencers,

              Re powder coating; Suffolk Stove Enamellers can do Moorland Blue

              For Wheels try Anglia Wheels

              Tyres: original front was 2.75 x 19 these are hard to get now. Avon do a 3.00 x 19 'Speedmaster' which will fit (I have one on my bike)
              The rear is 3.25 x 19, various makes available, Dunlop K70 is a good one and readily available.

              Engine Spares: VS have cornered the market here so you have little choice for new parts, you can of couse pick parts up from autojumbles, eBay, OBM etc but be carefull they are fit for purpose.

              With regards the registration number Hertfordshire Archives should have a copy of original registration record which hopefully will include frame number. They will supply a certified copy to enable you to recover the number via the V765 scheme. (Colin Sparrow is the GRA DVLA Authentication Officer) It is free to search the record if you go in person, but there will be a small charge for the certificated copy. The Archives may be able to do it via email but there will inevitably be an extra charge for this.
              Last edited by John Wakefield; 08/02/2018, 01:22 PM.


              • #8
                Hi John thanks for all that information. The frame number is 25DC146 (dispatched 09/11/61) and the engine plate says type 2T 341D12132 which Peter Smith confirms as the original engine number but it obviously has at least a 4T top end. You've cleared the six pin issue and the pistons do have the port above the gudgeon pin but it does have Siamese exhaust manifolds to a single exhaust pipe? I think I've got a 4T engine and the previous owner took the old engine number plate and put it on the new one. Can you tell from the parts numbers I gave in the previous post that it is a 4T?
                Also, what do you think about powder coating the tank, will the finish be ok?
                Thanks again.
                Regards John


                • #9
                  Yes the engine is a Greeves issue from Villiers, so looks like a previous owner changed inner chain case to keep original number. I have looked up the part numbers in my 4T Spare Parts List and they are all except con rods, 4T numbers, the con rods are listed as A28248. I think you probably have a 4T engine with 2T inner chaincase (the part number is probabaly same on 2T anyway) or someone has just changed the serial number plate. I would not worry too much about that. New crated 4T engines were available from Pride & Clarke at the end of production at Villiers. who sold off the spare engines to P&C. Many owners bought them to replace old and worn 2T's
                  Sorry I have no knowledge of powder coating (others will probably comment) but I would think that powder coating is best kept to the frame, and the tank with its two colours is best done with traditional paint. Again I cannot give paint specs etc
                  Best of luck with the project.


                  • #10
                    Thanks John that's really helpful, I'll get on and rebuild the engine as a 4T.


                    • #11
                      Hi all, I'm starting to get close to finishing the 25DC and am now working on the wiring loom, I'm concerned about the connection from the engine to the loom. Is there a male plug which plugs into the engine connector ? If so where could I get one? There was nothing on the bike when I got it, I've got some new male brass pins which I could fit in the engine connector and heat shrink the wires but seems a bit "bodgy". Any advise gratefully received. Regards, John


                      • #12
                        Apologies false alarm, i was looking at some photos and yes there is a plug, just spoke to VS and they have added one with bullets to my order. Thanks to all. Regards John


                        • #13
                          Hi all, just about finished, just sorting the registration now. Quick question: Ive rebuilt the 4T engine completely and as I need to run it in I've been using a 30.1 mixture but it's very smoky! Is the mixture to much oil? and how many miles should I run it in for? Thanks for any help. Cheers John


                          • #14
                            Depends what type of oil you are using. For ordinary mineral oil 30:1 is fine, but any kind of synthetic will be a bit much anything below 40:1. It's probably running a little rich, try dropping the needle a notch and see how it goes, keep an eye on the plug colour. My dad always recommended 500 miles for running in after a rebuild


                            • #15
                              Thanks, I'll give that a try. She starts first kick but doesn't like comming off the choke (very smokey with it on). Cheers John