Greeves Essex identification help needed

[Anthony Fortune]

Hi guys,
My dad bought a Greeves Essex as a project 20+ years ago and it has been sat in pieces ever since. Next year its his 55 birthday and recently he has suffered from ill health. So i am hoping to put a smile on his face by restoring his motorbike for him. I have just taken the serial numbers from the frame and was hoping to match them up with the identifying page on the website unfortunately the number that i have do not appear to be on the list so im wondering whether anyone can help me please.
The numbers i have are as follows;
Frame number 61 4253
Engine Villers 4T serial number 701E 1082
Any help would be much appreciated
Many thanks
Tom

[John Wakefield]

Hi guys,
My dad bought a Greeves Essex as a project 20+ years ago and it has been sat in pieces ever since. Next year its his 55 birthday and recently he has suffered from ill health. So i am hoping to put a smile on his face by restoring his motorbike for him. I have just taken the serial numbers from the frame and was hoping to match them up with the identifying page on the website unfortunately the number that i have do not appear to be on the list so im wondering whether anyone can help me please.
The numbers i have are as follows;
Frame number 61 4253
Engine Villers 4T serial number 701E 1082
Any help would be much appreciated
Many thanks
Tom

The Essex was not made until 1963 & with a frame No prefix of 25DD (or 32DD for the 325) The engine number is a Villiers 4T originally fitted to a Royal Enfield Tubo Twin 1963-67. So looks like you have a mish mash of parts.
Like you say the frame No 61/4253 does not tie up with the models listed on GRA web site, the nearest being a 24MCS scrambler starting at 61/3650. The highest numbered roadsters with 61/ prefix were the 32DC starting at 61/3500
Maybe someone with a copy of the dispatch records could look it up.

[Anthony Fortune]

The Essex was not made until 1963 & with a frame No prefix of 25DD (or 32DD for the 325) The engine number is a Villiers 4T originally fitted to a Royal Enfield Tubo Twin 1963-67. So looks like you have a mish mash of parts.
Like you say the frame No 61/4253 does not tie up with the models listed, the nearest being a 24MCS scrambler starting at 61 3650.
Maybe someone with a copy of the dispatch records could look it up.

Hi John
Thanks for such a quick reply, its such a shame to find out that it is a mish mash of parts. I am looking to restore this bike for my dad as a surprise birthday present, what would you suggest me doing about this small but major issue? would it be worth looking for a essex frame and a engine to match? Or would the frame and engine be compatible enough to look like an essex to the untrained eye? What would you suggest is the best thing to do in my situation?
Many thanks
Tom

[John Wakefield]

Hi John
Thanks for such a quick reply, its such a shame to find out that it is a mish mash of parts. I am looking to restore this bike for my dad as a surprise birthday present, what would you suggest me doing about this small but major issue? would it be worth looking for a essex frame and a engine to match? Or would the frame and engine be compatible enough to look like an essex to the untrained eye? What would you suggest is the best thing to do in my situation?
Many thanks
Tom

I have had a look at some frame numbers I have listed & there is a 1961 32DC (325cc) with a frame number of 61/4212 so your frame could be from a 32DC roadster which is basically the same as the Essex but with alloy mudguards & steel tank. If its a roadster frame it will have the pillion footrests welded to the rear frame section. Scrambles & trials did not have footrests. The engine though will be wrong for the year but the Mk2 Essex did have the 4T engine from 1964. So basically the bike could be made to look like a mark 2 Essex if you have all the fibreglass bits, mudguards & petrol tank.

[Anthony Fortune]

I have had a look at some frame numbers I have listed & there is a 1961 32DC (325cc) with a frame number of 61/4213 so your frame could be from a 32DC roadster which is basically the same as the Essex but with alloy mudguards & steel tank. If its a roadster frame it will have the pillion footrests welded to the rear frame section. Scrambles & trials did not have footrests. The engine though will be wrong for the year but the Mk2 Essex did have the 4T engine from 1964. So basically the bike could be made to look like a mark 2 Essex if you have all the fibreglass bits, mudguards & petrol tank.

Hi John,
Thank you for such great help,
In actual fact there are chrome plated alloy mudguards that are hanging up on the shelf in the garage and a i think the tank may be steel things may be looking up. Unfortunately the bike is burred under a load of crap in the garage so i cant see the rear of the frame. What would you recommend me restoring the bike as then? A roadster or Essex mark 2?
Thank you once again for so much help, its highly appreciated
Tom

[John Wakefield]

Hi John,
Thank you for such great help,
In actual fact there are chrome plated alloy mudguards that are hanging up on the shelf in the garage and a i think the tank may be steel things may be looking up. Unfortunately the bike is burred under a load of crap in the garage so i cant see the rear of the frame. What would you recommend me restoring the bike as then? A roadster or Essex mark 2?
Thank you once again for so much help, its highly appreciated
Tom

Its not an Essex so I would restore it as a 32DC but leave the 4T engine in. When you get it out post some pics, as a non member you can do this via a photo hosting site like photobucket. This is what a 1961 32DC looks like https://www.flickr.com/photos/imaget...-59yUaJ-iaWjvo
Were you the guy who spoke to me on Sunday at Battlesbridge who said he had an Essex to restore?

[Anthony Fortune]

Its not an Essex so I would restore it as a 32DC but leave the 4T engine in. When you get it out post some pics, as a non member you can do this via a photo hosting site like photobucket. This is what a 1961 32DC looks like https://www.flickr.com/photos/imaget...-59yUaJ-iaWjvo
Were you the guy who spoke to me on Sunday at Battlesbridge who said he had an Essex to restore?

Hi John
Thank you so much,
if i managed to get the bike to that level of aesthetics my dad would be breath taken and so happy.
Thank you so much for your help
Tom

[Colin Sparrow]

You're completely correct John. 61/4253 checks out as a 1961 32DC Sports Twin. Best roadster Greeves ever made (in my not-so-humble opinion).

[Anthony Fortune]

You're completely correct John. 61/4253 checks out as a 1961 32DC Sports Twin. Best roadster Greeves ever made (in my not-so-humble opinion).

Hi Colin
Thank you for the confirmation that in fact it is a roadster, what do you suggest i do about the engine? should i start searching for a 3t engine or will the 4t i already have be suitable? if i decide to use the 4t engine will it under value the bike by alot due to not being original spec?
Many thanks
Tom

[Colin Sparrow]

It depends where you want to end up. If you're trying to get it back to original spec, you will need to find a 3T; that and a proper restoration would maximise its value, however it is a given that one rarely recovers the cost of a restoration on selling, particularly if you take your time into account.

If you simply want a useable bike for your dad, then use the 4T. It's an excellent engine which produces as much top end as a 3T, albeit at higher revs and with slightly less torque. We're not talking particularly high performance either way.

[Anthony Fortune]

It depends where you want to end up. If you're trying to get it back to original spec, you will need to find a 3T; that and a proper restoration would maximise its value, however it is a given that one rarely recovers the cost of a restoration on selling, particularly if you take your time into account.

If you simply want a useable bike for your dad, then use the 4T. It's an excellent engine which produces as much top end as a 3T, albeit at higher revs and with slightly less torque. We're not talking particularly high performance either way.

Thanks Colin,
I think that to just get the bike usable i shall use the 4T engine and at a later date he may feel it is worth searching for an original 3T engine.
Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far everyone i have encountered has been so willing to help.

[Colin Sparrow]

Thanks Colin,
I think that to just get the bike usable i shall use the 4T engine and at a later date he may feel it is worth searching for an original 3T engine.
Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far everyone i have encountered has been so willing to help.

That's what our club is about, Anthony. Why not join us? Everything you need is on the GRA website.

[greeves246]

32dc ?

I have frame 61/4237 32dc ? sold where when and what registration engine number i have a 325 engine with it and its a roadster

[John Wakefield]

Thanks Colin,
I think that to just get the bike usable i shall use the 4T engine and at a later date he may feel it is worth searching for an original 3T engine.
Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far everyone i have encountered has been so willing to help.

Anthony (Tom?) did you ever get the bike up & running, maybe you could send in some pics.

[John Wakefield]

Anthony Fortune are you still out there? just came upon this thread and wondered if you ever got your dads 32DC running