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Is hand painting frame of Hawkstone ever a good idea?

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  • Is hand painting frame of Hawkstone ever a good idea?

    Hi
    Another question from a wet behind the ears restorer.

    I would like to hear from anyone who may have views on the success or otherwise of hand painting a Hawkstone frame themselves as although I have limited funds (read zilch), I do not wish to expend a huge amount of time in preparing and painting the frame only to be dissappointed with the end results not to mention the embarrassment of then taking it to someone who knows what they are doing!!

    If Professional treatment is the only sensible way to go does anyone have any personal recommendations of companies in the East midlands area that have a good reputation for such work.

    I have already picked up on the difficulty of rubber bushes and ovens hence the thought of hand painting.

    Thanks for any suggestions/thoughts
    Neil

  • #2
    Moorland Blue Tractor Paint!

    Hi Neil,

    Rob and I were chatting about this once, and he's had good results hand painting his Enfield trials bikes. As he says.."Don't worry too much about the paint, it's a trials bike!!!" Powder coating is great if you can afford it, and if you're going to use the bike 'as intended' it would probably be more durable. However, then you've got to deal with fork and swinging arm bushes, a shame (and hassle/expense!) to disturb them if they've still got some life left in them.

    He then suggested what I thought was a brilliant idea. A local firm to him markets tractor paint (!) that they can apparently colour match as well. Ok, it's hardly concours, but if it's a 'working' bike and you just want to smarten it up...Also, it can be easily touched up when it gets a scrape or two, inevitable on a comp bike. I don't know how much it costs, but rattle cans/bottles (there's a novelty!) of Moorland Blue can work out pretty expensive (see the threads in 'Paint' for more info, as I think you've already seen.)

    This frees things up to concentrate on the 'mechanicals' and get the bike sorted that way, and you can always do the cosmetics (inc. blasting/powdercoating/chroming etc) later when funds allow. It's an approach that appeals to me I have to say, as I'm a bit skint mesen at the mo'....!

    Don't get me wrong! One day I will certainly be going down the powder coating route et al, but I'm enjoying the bike 'as it is' for the time being and why take a perfectly good, functioning motorcycle to bits until you know you have everything together you need (including the dosh!) to get it all done 'in one go'. It's different if you've got a 'basket case' of course.

    Anyway, I'll send Rob an email and see if he can give us any more info on the firm that does the tractor paint and report back (unless Rob sees this first of course!)

    Worth looking into as a potentially cheaper option?

    What do other members think?

    Brian.
    Last edited by Brian Thompson; 30/10/2010, 02:01 AM.

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    • #3
      Paint

      Hammerite do a Blue Smoothrite which is near to Moorland Blue & is available in tins & aerosols. I use it on my Yamaha Townmate (hand painted) & it gives good results. The tractor paint mentioned by Brian, Tractol I think, is also a good paint, dont know it the do it in aerosols.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by John Wakefield View Post
        Hammerite do a Blue Smoothrite which is near to Moorland Blue & is available in tins & aerosols.
        And very easy to touch up when you scratch it - which you're bound to do in competition...
        Colin Sparrow

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        • #5
          Frame finishing

          I have hand painted a Greeves frame in the past and used a synthetic coach paint. This type of paint is used on old vehicles and machinery. It is not cheap but can be brushed and sprayed.

          Another alternative is to try a big branch of Halfords. They will mix aerosols in any colour.

          Regardless of whether you choose to brush or spray the real issue is preparation. Primer, undercoat, and finish, with load of flatting down in between.

          Hope this helps

          Phil

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you so much for your help. I think I am now going to undertake a thorough but careful degrease and clean of the bike and take stock. If I go the diy route I'll probably wait until warmer weather in spring and use winter months for prep and sourcing missing parts.

            Cheers.
            Neil

            Comment


            • #7
              Many thanks guys for all the advice.

              Its time to do some thinking but before that I'll crack on with a thorough clean up and see what to do next.


              Cheers
              Neil


              Sorry problem with posting and thought prevous one had failed!!

              Note to myself - Must be more patient!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Brush Painting etc.

                Thanks for all the tips and advice chaps!

                Cheers for the 'Tractol' name John (very useful), and I should have been clearer in my post. The aerosols I was refering to are the ones marketed by 'RS Paints', which work out at around 30 a tin..! Tractol, on the other hand seems a good bit cheaper.

                A bit of digging on the net has been worthwhile, with lots of handy info discovered. I wonder if the paint Phil refered to is called Tekaloid, which also came up in my search? Users quote a fairly long curing time with this product (three days apparently) and say that Tractol is much faster, if a bit less glossy, although a varnish top coat might sort that I suppose.

                Anyway, here's a couple of handy links I found;

                Tractol paint supplies and related products; http://www.smithandallan.com/tractol-paint.aspx

                This is a good site, and includes useful tips on preperation etc (see 2nd link below);
                http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/tekaloid.html
                http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.c...eparation.html

                I've used the Smoothright (Hammerite) Blue paint that John mentioned myself, and it's good. Maybe a little lighter than Moorland Blue, but a bit of black to darken it down could get it pretty close, just like the old days! I've attached a pic of some Halfords axle stands I adapted for my 'Scottish', which I used this paint on to give an idea of the colour. I also gave them a top coat of 'Humbrol' enamel clear varnish. Come to think of it, quite a few of the bikes we've seen advertised on EBay recently look uncannily similar to this colour.....mmmm!

                Incidently, if anyone's interested I made the 'adaptors' for the axle stand tops (to suit the standard solid footrests currently on my bike) from 'hard rock' Maple (honest, that's what it's called!) as used for guitar necks due to its strength and density. Rock hard it is too, and certainly took some cutting! It was fun making two exactly identical peices 'by hand' as well...! I finished them off with four simple bent-up brackets screwed to the sides on each one to attach them to the tops, and glued rubbers in the 'vees' made from a strip of HD rubber exhaust strap (the type thats laminated with canvas for strength) and some bits of old inner tube. Getting all the angles right on those bits of rubber was 'challenging' too! When I eventually fit folding footpegs (the kind that don't break bones...!) I'll have to have a rethink, but they'll do for now.

                Brian.

                PS While I'm at it I'll move this thread to the 'Paint' section of the forum!
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Brian Thompson; 02/11/2010, 02:15 PM. Reason: Pic added.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Neat job those axle stands. What key are they in?
                  Colin Sparrow

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bert Weedon (not Bert Greeves) Dept!

                    Ta mate!

                    As for the key, why they're both carefully tuned to 'G' Major, of course!

                    (E flat just didn't sound right....)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It all depends on what the bike is going to be used for. There is absolutely no point in spending 150 on 2 pack to use the bike on the rough and get the paint scraped off! I actually saw this happen to an Enfield rider once!

                      Having said that, you don't want the bike to look like a 50 year old window frame either!

                      As Brian said, I brush painted my Enfield trials bike using Tekaloid. 20 years later, I used the same tins of paint to finish another Enfield!

                      I am currently painting an Anglian. A 'modern' trials rider was in the workshop this week and asked me who had done the paintwork as he didn't realise they were brushed! I have facilities to spray cellulose and 2 pack so the choice to brush is mine and not cost, etc.

                      So, what to use? Strangely enough, you need the right paint AND the right brush! The Enfield got the full monty. I used a phosphoric acid solution to phoshate the bare metal. I then used an oil-based elastic primer surfacer followed by Tekaloid undercoat and top coat.

                      However, the Anglian parts that impressed my mate were just top coat over primer.

                      So what to buy? I use cheapo autojumble primer, 2 a tin, 3 for a fiver. My dreaded Moorland Blue that I have used on parts for my Hawkstone and will use on my Scottish rebuild is Tekaloid 819 Undercoat, T819 Extra Dark Blue. Top coat is Tekaloid 318 Coach Enamel to pattern (inside of an unused Scottish toolbox). Supplier was Avenue Coatings (01753 686888) who are near Heathrow.

                      The Anglian paint is 47/BR/G/ME071 Enamel Brushing Gloss Grey Green to Pattern (inside of Angian speedo housing). This was supplied by Horace & Williams (Serene Paints).

                      Data sheet: http://www.serenepaints.co.uk/datash...PORTENAMEL.pdf

                      Their old factory was demolished and I thought they had bitten the dust but I have just looked them up on the web and much to my delight, I have just found that they are about 6 miles closer to me now than they were before!

                      Regarding painting this time of the year, I painted my trailer yesterday under cover in a barn and some parts of the paint are still tacky today but then you don't want a brush finish to go off too quickly. If the painted object were in a heated room, it would have hardened by now.

                      Regarding brushes, use Hamiltons Perfection or Perfection Plus. These have long bristles and work really well. Treat them like pets, clean then thoroughly and wrap them in cling film when not in use. This preserves the shape of the bristles as much as anything.

                      Think that's enough on the subject. You can get a very good finish with a brush and it costs a fraction of the 2 pack route!

                      Cheers,

                      Rob
                      Last edited by Rob; 01/11/2010, 08:56 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rob View Post
                        Treat them like pets, clean then thoroughly and wrap them in cling film when not in use.
                        Help! Tried it! My cat's just suffocated!
                        Colin Sparrow

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tekaloid

                          Rob's post has really got my attention. I repainted my MDS in cellulose and its both brittle and expensive (Used RS Bike paints rattle cans).

                          I have the 20DC in bits in the garage and the colours alway's been far too bright. I might leave the tank as it is (it's the best bit by far) and do the rest in Tekaloid to tidy the bike up.

                          But what's the best Tekaloid colour to replicate Moorland Blue? Rob's post mentions both T819 Extra Dark Blue and also a top coat colour match so I'm confused.
                          What do us Greeves riders order? is there a standard Tekaloid color that close to Moorland Blue?

                          Using Brians post I also found there are big price differences between 5L tins between Scott+Allen and Avenue Group.

                          P.S I'm sure another post from Rob providing "Top Tips" for using Tekaloid coach paint would be very well read on the forum. It's certainly opened my mind to an alternative approach.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My tyres are in F Flat at present!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hand Painting

                              Iv'e always used hand painting with an oil based paint for my trials bikes. Its easy to touch up all the dinks, and cheap! Dulux paint match in b&q is not bad.

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