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  • Buying Powder coating powder

    The best match I have had for Moorland blue has been from Suffolk Stove Enamelers. My issue is that it is along way from me and packing and delivery is costly. I looked into getting some Powder matched to an existing part (as they did) from Avace, however the minimum amount and cost is 20kg, 299.00 + VAT (360.00). Now if there were 10 interested then 36.00 for 2kg would be good. It also means that you can use a local powder coater and cut out transport cost and use some one you know. So if anyone is thinking of getting their bikes sprayed in the near future this might be an option.
    Of course it would be even better if the club was to get a batch made which might benefit new and old members alike - better put on the Christmas list I suppose

  • #2
    If you're asking for people to subscribe to a joint purchase, count me in.

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    • #3
      Tony. How much powder does a typical Greeves frame, forks, s/arm, tinwork etc need? Are the powder-coaters prepared to divide the batch and send it to the various purchasers, and if so, at what cost? Failing that, there is the logistical problem of the powder being delivered to you, the remaining 9 in the syndicate needing to collect, with suitable containers, weighing it out etc.

      Sounds ok in theory, and I have 3 which need doing, although they are not yet ready; part stripped, bushes to be pressed out, odd brackets need bronze welding, a repair here and there; and I am still building the workshop in which to do all this!
      Attached Files

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      • #4
        Powder coated.......

        As recent as yesterday I was working on the idea of getting my frame powder coated. So, this thread came as a nice surprise.

        Suffolk Stove Enamellers is around 180 miles away. Quite a hike for a round trip day out. I have a powder coaters nearby who have done some architectural jobs in the past and I will speak to them about the supply your own powder concept.

        Like Ian in the previous section I would be keen to know how much powder is required for an average Greeves frame. Also, which is best(more suited) a gloss finish, or semi gloss?

        As a further thought would it be worth investigating the idea with a powder coater in the West Country we could nurture as a centre of excellence in finishing Greeves frames.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Kevin, Phil, Ian the powder can be sent out directly from them to Individuals, might be small postage cost depending on how many packages. 2kg does 10 sq metres, probably on fiddly things 5 to 6 sq metres is more realistic. Different powder coaters have said usage for a motorbike and ancillary bits from 1kg to 3 kg so I thought 2 would be a sensible amount for each bike.

          A sample would be sent to them and then returned with a matched piece. Due to the ageing process and affect of sunlight (Rangers are quite light due to that) an internal piece would be better and perhaps a check of colour would be beneficial by a couple of members. A piece taken to Kempton(2nd December) would be good if anyone is going there. I have several bits that have good colour, original tool box, chain guide and more.

          The matched piece could then be posted around to make sure everyone is happy with the final colour.

          As to semi gloss or gloss Phil, I am unsure and perhaps some one can give an opinion. For protection and a very shinny finish a clear lacquer can be used which is not that expensive. It is possibly better not to have the powder colour shinny and rely on the lacquer to be semi or full gloss
          Last edited by tony; 16/11/2017, 01:22 PM.

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          • #6
            The quantity is a tricky one. It would be a shame to run out with one fork leg left to do!

            I like the idea of finding a West Country powder coater. I have used one in Bodmin in the past. He is alright for iron railings and the like, but a bit hit-and-miss on good stuff. In fairness, he has done a couple of bike frames for me in the past, in black, which were ok, but he has plenty of black powder if things went wrong, whereas he won't be keeping great stocks of Moorland blue....

            I seem to recall that John Fryatt has already done the legwork on this, and sorted out a powder-coat formula for Moorland Blue some while ago, which could be identified by powder-coaters to their suppliers as 'Greeves Blue', or 'Greeves Moorland Blue'. Does anyone remember that? He has done restorations for several members, so they may know. It saves doing a colour match all over again, at least.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by IanCordes View Post
              I seem to recall that John Fryatt has already done the legwork on this, and sorted out a powder-coat formula for Moorland Blue some while ago, which could be identified by powder-coaters to their suppliers as 'Greeves Blue', or 'Greeves Moorland Blue'. Does anyone remember that? He has done restorations for several members, so they may know. It saves doing a colour match all over again, at least.
              That's entirely right. John got an un-faded example of Moorland Blue matched.

              I don't suppose Suffolk Stove Enamellers make the powder themselves. Why doesn't someone just give them a ring, explain the distance difficulties and ask if they are willing to name their supplier so people can get it done locally. From my experience (and I have used them), they have plenty of work. I mean, have you seen the Moorland Blue alloys on my Nissan 350Z?

              The company belongs to Chris Ginn who rode Greeves to considerable success back in the day, and his son now runs it. They're good friends to Greeves.
              Attached Files
              Colin Sparrow

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              • #8
                Colin I phoned and spoke to them about selling the powder, which they won't (understandably). I doubt whether they would divulge their powder supplier for the same sort of reason. It would be great if they would, however if everyone started using their own local powder coaters they would loose business - however busy they are I don't expect they would want that.

                Ian the powder coaters would also be faced with buying a minimum quantity 20kg. That might be okay if they thought they were going to get sufficient business to cover the initial outlay.

                The original threads on this topic have this:

                Lechler Formula

                Description: Colour: 25354 Isoakryl 2K Car Colour STD (414) SEABLAU

                Ingredients: 430.6 grammes 91 084 base NERO FREDDO
                262.5 grammes 91 259 base VIOL.SOLI.CR
                233.8 grammes 91.068 base BLEU FTALO 2
                116.9 grammes 91 000 base B.CO.INTENSO

                I will phone the company tomorrow and see what they say.

                Of course this highlights another reason why perhaps certain important products/parts should be produced through the club.

                1. An agreed standard
                2. It makes it easy for members and might possibly attract new members. (Always a very common question from new members).
                3. No one business has a monopoly.
                4. In this case local businesses can be used and save the expense of packing and posting parts.
                5 Makes it financially viable, not many members need 20kg

                Just a thought
                Last edited by tony; 16/11/2017, 07:21 PM.

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                • #9
                  I have spoken to John (Fryatt) and have contacted the company who supply the powder. Unfortunately the code for the product is required as it is not referenced on their system as Greeves blue. I shall waste more time trying to get hold of the code John might be able to speak to Chris, but it is doubtful whether he has a record as he is not involved in the business now.
                  Last edited by tony; 17/11/2017, 04:24 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Paint code

                    Paint code 5001 looks just like the original Moorland blue

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                    • #11
                      I think it is a little light, however it might be nearer in colour to those bikes that have faded in colour due to sunlight. Of course it is a very personal thing and with my taste in 'Moorland orange' I would be the last person to say what should be used and what should not. However the powder mix that John sorted originally matches well to what original parts I have.

                      An original photo of a Ranger outside the factory, the paint is quite dark


                      The one on the left is RAL5001





                      Tank has been powder coated with John's 'recipe'

                      Last edited by tony; 17/11/2017, 07:15 PM. Reason: extra photo

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                      • #12
                        Ral 5001

                        I agree, RAL 5001 is a very good match for Moorland Blue. For as long as I have been interested in Greeves the factory lore of this colour has never failed to generate healthy debate.

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                        • #13
                          As I understood it from previous Moorland Blue threads, there was rarely a consistency of shade back in the day, when, without computerised colour matching and batch mixing, each batch would have been mixed by hand when needed, with maybe a bit more black going in, or whatever!

                          The benefit of RAL 5001 is that, as well as powder-coat being available, it is also available off the shelf for 14 a litre in cellulose, and even in rattle cans. This will make life much easier for having odd small parts re-done.

                          One could debate the originality of a particular mix, but powder-coating wasn't done originally, it does look different from original finishes, so which ever route the individual restorer takes is fine, I reckon.

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                          • #14
                            Quite true Ian, it is always about personal choice that is why you see so many different shades (50) of Moorland blue. Stainless steel, powder coating as you point out is not correct and since Cadmium plating is no longer carried out then you have to use a substitute.

                            If RAL 5001 gives you the colour you like great. However I don't think it is quite right for me, it certainly does not match as well as the made up powder on any parts I have compared it with.
                            True if you want to match in with a rattle can a standard RAl colour can be obtained off the shelf, however I have a local company who can match any colour with a 'wet' paint.
                            I will probably get a batch made as like you I have several bikes to paint and the cost and aggro of shipping to Suffolk is prohibitive.

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