2t points plate

[Floydism]

I'm about to embark on the re-build of my 2t (25DD). unfortunately I'm missing a few bits! namely the points group. I'm going to order in both sets of points/condensers and fittings but as I've had no luck finding the carrier plates.

I'm quite happy to make my own plates but to make things a little simpler I was wondering if anybody out there either had accurate drawings for these, or would be willing to pop one onto a flatbed scanner or better yet, let me borrow some to copy.

Most of the main details can be worked out from the parts-drawings, but the thickness of the plates is something I'm either going to have to work out for myself or copy the original.

[John Wakefield]

Pete Savage used to make a points conversion for the 2T 2T & 4T twins, basically an alloy plate that was machined with 3 slots and tapped holes to accept Bosch XCS126 car points as fitted to Ford Escorts and available cheaply from car parts suppliers.

[Floydism]

Yes i've came across some references to those, and considered doing something similar as i've got quite the stash of NOS car bits, do you how they were arranged? i take it one set is just rotated around the cam 180 degrees instead of a mirrored setup like the original. I'd like to keep things as original as possible but i'm open to a different arrangement. I've even considered building a more modern CDI type ignition system as I've built my own programmable CDI boxes before, but I'd rather have a proper clockwork ignition system on this bike, mechanical systems are less reliable, but generally fixable on the roadside.

I'll probably just make up my own plate to fit whatever I've got on hand (as long as they're not unobtanium), I've probably got some ford ones somewhere, although I'd best make them independently adjustable, like the original. It's probably going to be a week or two before i can get the engine out and mounted in a stand so i can attend to her properly. I've got to build a proper work/test-stand first! and it'll need a proper strip down as the previous owner had welded the breaker-cam onto the end of the crank! That'll make for some interesting lathe work to fix that one!

[John Wakefield]

Here is a drawing of the plate giving dimensions, and pic of the set up on a bike. You will note that a bracket needs to be made for the felt cam lubricating pad, & also the two connecting posts for the wires, these need to be insulated from the back plate, On the original this is achieved with fibre washers, & recessed screws from the back, you may want to make different arrangement. The slots can always be lengthened to achieve the correct timing, and of course the points fixing holes need to be 180 degrees apart, and they are not independently adjustable. What is you real name please as its nice to know who I am talking to. Best of luck

[Floydism]

That's great, thanks! I'm going to have a rummage in the parts shed to see what goodies I can find. I'm going to make a pile of parts on my workbench and stare it for a little while, that usually helps the process!

Thanks, (Leon)

[Floydism]

It took a bit of digging but I found gold in the end! found 2 sets of xcs126 points in the stash, one bosch and one lucas, but I'll take that for now! that's decided it then, I'd best find myself a bit of approprate plate and start laying it out. I reckon i can come up with a way to adjust them independently, I mean how hard could it be?........

[John Wakefield]

As long as the crank is in line the fixed points will be fine, (just check it with a dial gauge and degree plate) in fact that is one of the advantages of the modification, you only need to set the timing on one cylinder.

[Floydism]

Yes, I'll be checking for than when i can get around to getting the engine up on a bench for a proper look. The points are just one of the things i'm trying to get together beforehand, as I like to have as many parts on hand as possible before laying it all out on the operating table.

I'll avoid splitting the crank unless it needs it. I'd live with a degree or two of mis-alignment, if the bearings were in good order, so i'd like to have the option of tweaking that out, also there may be some innacuracies in the plate/housing/points that i'd like to take into account too. less than 1/4mm (10thou ish) total error would equate to 1 degree timing error. I know it's overkill but I like to be thorough!

I've already got a fag-packet sketch of my modified plate, and it's not much more complicated than the original Pete Savage plate. I'll post a revised drawing and some photos when i've got it sorted.

[John Wakefield]

I have been using the Pete Savage set up on my 25DC East Coaster with 4T engine for some years, works fine but I would not think any better than the original Villiers set up. Main advantage is the that the points only cost around £3 each to replace as against £10.79 each for Villiers ones from VS, and the car points are as I say readily available from classic car parts outlets ie Wilco in East Anglia and are easier to fit being in one unit. The slots I found needed lengthening a bit to get timing right.

[Floydism]

I've got some ali plate on it's way, while I'm waiting I'll be spending an evening or two knocking up some jigs to make the machining process a little easier/faster. I'm going to make a few sets up (i may as well since it's the setup that takes the time with these things, not the actual machining) so I'll have a few spare units once I'm done. I'll bear in mind what you say about slot length, it shouldn't be much bother to add a few mm at either end to accomodate the extra range that may be needed.

[John Wakefield]

I am sure you will be able to sell a few as Pete Savage no longer makes them, he became ill and could no longer do it, (not sure he is actually still with us) so you wont be trading on his toes so to speak..

[John Wakefield]

Leon. I have just realised there are 2 holes missing on original drawing they are 4.5mm on a 40mm pcd to take the locating pins on the points. new drawing attached

[Floydism]

Funnily enough I just twigged that myself! I came back to the forum as I wanted to check the drawing again. I'm in the shed and don't have the drawing on my phone. I've only got as far as rummaging for the correct screws to hold the plate/condensers. I'm reluctant to re-tap a perfecly servicable thread! I've dug up a set of brass cheese-heads that'll do the job nicely. it's the small stuff that's the most satisfying sometimes!

[John Wakefield]

The fixing screws for plate and condensers would be a BA thread

Attached is the Fitting instructions from the Pete Savage set up

[Floydism]

Yes, I've got the screws sorted.

For those playing along at home; 2BA for the plate itself, 4BA for the condenser brackets. Luckily I'm in possesion of several lifetimes worth of assorted BA/whitworth hardware! it's both a curse and a blessing to be such a hoarder! I've been digging for condensers in the gold-mine too but so far I've not found anything suitable. I'll probably just use the VS ones though as they're not unreasonably priced and I'll be ordering a few more bits from there soon anyway.