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9E Gearbox Sprocket Removal

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  • 9E Gearbox Sprocket Removal

    I am struggling to get the gearbox sprocket nut to shift. The engine is bolted up in the cradle, which is clamped to the bench. The chain is gripped in the vice, which is bolted to the bench. The socket I have which is a good fit is 33mm, but not long enough to project beyond the shaft sufficient to get a T bar on it. I have ground 2 flats on the socket which provides a snug fit for an 18" long 32mm spanner. I have soaked it in easing fluid, and even applied some heat, although I was mindful that could damage the oil seal. I have tried to shock it with a wack on the end of the spanner with a lump hammer. Still it will not shift.


    Any ideas?

    Thanks.

    Ian
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Is it LH thread? Strange that it is taking all that force, they usually work loose and the nut is quite thin and not prone to rusting. I assume you have released the tab locking washer.
    Last edited by John Wakefield; 13/08/2018, 01:25 PM.

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    • #3
      It is a regular right-hand thread. It doesn't even look as though it has a tab washer fitted

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      • #4
        Take it to a garage & ask one of the lads to put an air gun on it..... job done

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        • #5
          That's true Dave, but I was trying to avoid that; not wishing to admit defeat and all that . It will still need securing in much the same way as I have now, because the shaft spins so freely a rattle gun wouldn't free the nut without, which will take a bit of setting up. I have air and a rattle gun, but not the extended socket required. Maybe I will buy one, as I have a few to do.... Just seems a bit OTT, just to undo a nut

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          • #6
            Have you removed the small screw that fits beside the nut as that acts as locking device

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            • #7
              Yes, the lock screw has been removed, Gary. I wondered if the head of one had sheared off, leaving a bit which would prevent the nut turning, but it is all clear.
              I am putting so much leverage on it that the engine cradle is twisting, the chain is stretching, but it will not shift.

              It is not rusted. I was using the bike. Plenty of chain oil flicking around.

              I even tried reverse psychology, and tightened before loosening, but it didn't fall for the trick.....

              I don't get it. Must be missing something.

              Ian
              Last edited by IanCordes; 13/08/2018, 09:53 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by IanCordes View Post
                That's true Dave, but I was trying to avoid that; not wishing to admit defeat and all that . It will still need securing in much the same way as I have now, because the shaft spins so freely a rattle gun wouldn't free the nut without, which will take a bit of setting up. I have air and a rattle gun, but not the extended socket required. Maybe I will buy one, as I have a few to do.... Just seems a bit OTT, just to undo a nut
                Forget the little diy guns & compressors, its the shock element that breaks the seal & you need a good gun & plenty of air volume to use it, lock the shaft with a chain & it has not got any other option, but to come off.......

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                • #9
                  Fair play Dave, it will probably come to that. Do you happen to know the correct spanner size? I am using 33mm, which is close, but no cigar....

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                  • #10
                    Maybe heavy duty thread lock was used.
                    Add more heat, seal available from Auto/bearing shop, not expensive.
                    Only 3 or 4 threads wide.
                    Remember one on a James Trials I couldn't get off. Went to local truck depot.
                    He asked RH or LH thread, LH. wouldn't matter, he said, its coming off either way.

                    whitehillbilly

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                    • #11
                      Torque is cheap, experience costs more.....

                      Unlikely to be metric Ian....

                      Dave's advice is spot on, as usual. Always trust the pros I say.

                      Good comment from WHB re loctite and using some heat to melt it as well.

                      Also, the right size socket will transfer 100 percent of the shock, even better if you have one that grips the faces rather than the points of the nut.

                      I had a similar problem years ago on a big Ducati v-twin....access was limited, but I was able to wrap a couple of turns of chain around the sprocket and 'wedged' it (i.e the side of the chain) against a fixture I made up so as not to break anything on those extremely expensive crankcases, and obviously, against the rotation direction required. I used an extension bar directly attached to the socket, added a tightly fitting longer extension tube to that, and a relatively light tap on it at the end with a small lump hammer did the rest, and nothing broke!

                      Looking at your pics, it just made me think there might be a fair bit of chain soaking up the torque before it gets to the vise....amazing how much 'stretch' there is in a chain. Maybe if you could rig something up that keeps the torque closer to the point of rotation, where you need it, and could rig up a similar fixture as I did, it might just do it......

                      But Dave is right, and that is easily the best option. I've had the pleasure of working with some of the best motorcycle techs in the country, and you watch, learn and listen........Higgo is one of them, trust me.

                      Brian.
                      Last edited by Brian Thompson; 13/08/2018, 11:26 PM. Reason: Edit and tidy up.....

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                      • #12
                        Brian.
                        Thank you for your comments. Unlikely to be metric? For sure, that is why I asked what the real spanner size is. I realise the importance of the correct size for the job. Do you know what it is? The 33mm socket is what I have, and it is a close fit. It is not damaging the nut, even with the leverage I am applying. In normal circumstances it would have worked fine. I tried it on another gearbox I have and it came undone; no problem. This one is proving to be unusually obstinate, hence my reluctance to use brute force, when I may be missing something.

                        I have used heat on it, but to no avail.

                        I agree about the length of chain used; it is not helping. With the set-up I have, it is difficult to turn the engine around to use a shorter length. It may be I have to make up something with a short length of chain, which can be bolted to the engine jig immediately behind the engine. This will need to be done; rattle gun or no rattle gun.

                        Interesting about your Ducati.....

                        It doesn't make sense that a PO would have used a heavy duty loctite on it, when it has a dished washer, and a locking screw. The screw itself ensures it cannot come undone. However, as we know, common sense does not always apply!

                        One thing is for sure, it will come undone

                        Ian

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                        • #13
                          32A Gearbox Nut Size.....

                          Ian,

                          Nearest imperial size down from your 33 mm would be 1 1/4" AF....(Nominally 0.050" [+/- 0.001"] under 33 mm) or maybe 11/16" Whitworth (Nominally 0.100" under 33 mm) either of which would be my bet to try.....

                          Going the other way, a tiny fraction bigger, would be 3/4" Whitworth, but probably giving a similar slightly loose fit like the 33 mm, hence the above.....

                          Villiers don't quote the nut size in any literature I've got (just looked), only the part number, which is E9652.

                          I'd measure mine for you but it's a bit hard to get to it 'on the bike'....

                          Hope this helps.

                          Brian.
                          Last edited by Brian Thompson; 14/08/2018, 07:52 AM. Reason: Part number added in bold.....

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                          • #14
                            Brian. The nut; and I checked 2; measures 1.3" across flats, which is 33mm exactly. A 3/4W open-ended spanner is a perfect fit. I didn't actually say that the 33mm socket is a slightly loose fit, I said it was a close fit. I can't use the open-ended spanner because the nut is too thin and the chain is in the way. It would not be the tool of choice for this job anyway. As previously mentioned, I am unable to get a T bar directly onto the socket because the shaft is too long for my regular length socket. My Villiers manual recommends using a box spanner! This nut just should not be this tight.

                            I reckoned that Villiers would have used BSF/W rather than AF. The purpose of all this is to find a garage who have the correct size extended socket, which could be tricky/unlikely if it is Whitworth. However, 33mm is far more likely. Fortunately, sometimes there is an equivalent to an Imperial size in Metric, and this looks to be one of them.

                            I am afraid work is going to get in the way today. I will return to this when I can.

                            BTW, it is worth mentioning, I don't recall ever doubting Higgo's knowledge and ability!

                            Cheers. Ian

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                            • #15
                              I have a old ring spanner, perfect fit for the nut.
                              I use it on my 32A motor. Have a look.
                              Buffed it over. 3/4W

                              whitehillbilly

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